Any tricks for memorizing long katas please?

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by KarateMum, Jul 27, 2017.

  1. KarateMum

    KarateMum Valued Member

    I suspect the answer is just practice, practice, repetition, practice etc. However, if anyone does have any tricks that will make a late middle aged brain remember long kata routines as well as the teenagers in our club can I'd be very interested.

    Many thanks
     
  2. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    There are a couple of approaches, and different things work for different people.

    I tend to teach and learn in blocks. I pick a section of a pattern/kata that seems to flow and work on it till I've got the gross movements down. Then I add the next bit. During this phase I won't mind too much if I make mall errors in footwork like turns, I just want to learn where it goes.

    Once I know the whole pattern, I'll then go back and check details to make sure everything is spot on.

    Some people hate this approach. They have to learn everything "perfectly" from the start, or they get too confused.

    My own Instructor teaches the while thing from start to finish and you just have to pick it up. He feels people will quickly pick up big chunks and rapidly fill in the small blanks. This definitely works for some.

    Another thing that really helps is finding the "flow" that makes a pattern work. This can take a while, but you'll know when you've got it :)

    Mitch
     
  3. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    I would echo what Mitch said. I will learn say 3 to 5 or so moves. Get the basic memorization down. Then ask for help from an instructor for the next few moves. Practice those moves until you get the basic memorization down. Do as many moves, but NOT more, that you can get in a day. Then, see the next day I practice what I remember. Keep that basic pattern down.

    Also, are there any decent video's -youtube- or from your school? With youtube, be careful of the quality of the details, but for basic memorization it can be helpful if you are also learning it from an instructor.

    Or, get a clip from your instructor or another student doing the form on your cell phone. Or have your instructor film you doing it with his input for later reference.

    Also, run through it in your head before you go to sleep at night. And or when you wake up in the morning. Visualize it.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2017
  4. Mushroom

    Mushroom De-powered to come back better than before.

    Videos and practice! If solo training.
     
  5. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    Just out of curiosity, what is considered a long kata in your style? How many moves roughly?
     
  6. KarateMum

    KarateMum Valued Member

    I don't know what is consider long for 'my style', but the one I'm trying to remember has about 70-80 moves in it - Kushanku. In checking the spelling I have actually found YouTube for it so I'll try watching. So far I can get to about 1/2 way through. I also know lots of the later moves and fair chunks of those more or less in order, but I have brain jello moments where I can't remember what links bits together, and the odd big chunk that I'll suddenly remember I've left out altogether. If someone does it next to me all I need is a slight cue - just the start of a movement set in the right direction and I'll be able to run thorough that bit and often the next. Then brain jello sets in and I'll need another cue. In that respect I've already learned loads more than I thought I would, I can currently remember all the Pinans 1-5 (a fact that now amazes me as I never thought I'd get those either) so I'm obviously capable of learning them, its just a process that I find harder than the youngsters and I just wondered if there were any tricks to make the memory process easier. As it seems I am getting on with my karate I can only see these katas getting longer and in case there was a magic memory bullet I thought I'd ask. It just seems that everyone else seems to be able to learn them and I need to be able to do the same.
     
  7. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    Stick with it, you'll get there! :)
     
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  8. Latikos

    Latikos Valued Member

    For me it depends: When learning a new Kata with my instructor he cuts them down in a few parts.
    So we practice the first part until people remember that, then add the second one: So we do both, which also helps remembering the first part better.
    And so on until it's done.

    During that step he doesn't pay too much attention on how the details look, but that the movement is memorized.
    After that it's repeating over and over (solo) and looking at the details (stances, are the arms and hands correct, ...).

    I'm a bit torn here, because I like to get the details down at the same moment, so I might get frustrated at times, but generally that works for me.


    When I learn them solo (we don't do too much kata and I can usually only make Karate once a week due to my other training) I do it very similar to that, but look more for the details from the beginning.
    So it takes a bit longer until I have the parts down good enough for me, so that I add the next part.



    I should mention though, that our style doesn't have many Kata and we don't really add classic ones, because my instructor is not such a big fan of them; so my experience is not that big with them. It's just the way, that I noticed works best for me.
     
  9. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    What I did was type out the moves, print them and carry them with me (put them in a doc on a smart phone is how I do it now) and go through it a few times a day. Even just sat on the toilet (yep), sat watching telly, waiting for the kettle to boil, waiting for a bus, sat in traffic, etc.
    Not worrying to much about turns and directions (you can't turn on the toilet!), little details or even executing the techniques fully but getting down which technique comes next in the sequence. You will be refining the details over time anyway.
    Also, visualising yourself doing it without doing the moves. I use this to get off to sleep. Picture yourself as if you're in a Youtube video you're watching.
    Break the kata up into chunks. There are usually recognisable "chapters" that you can learn rather then trying to memorise the entire "story". These chapters are often repeated left and right (the front kick/elbow in kushanku for example) you can start to see the kata as a collection of smaller kata.
    If you already know the Pinan katas then you already know some of the chunks/chapters of Kushanku anyway as kushanku was a progenitor kata for those.
     
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  10. KarateMum

    KarateMum Valued Member

    I think this is the stage I am at - I know lots of the chapters, but can't remember the plot line in the right order, at the moment everyone is in the parlour having the murderer picked out and then the murder is committed - it is usually me dying on the Dojo floor in front of the assembled suspects at the moment! LOL
     
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  11. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Love a good extended metaphor. :)
     
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  12. Tom bayley

    Tom bayley Valued Member

    To keys to memory - reflection and engagement.

    Reflection - (also known as rehearsal or revision). Regardless of the subject karate or particle physics, it doesn't matter, the same rule applies. if possible after every half or of class take 3 or 4 minutes to pause and look back on what you have just been doing. After the class take a ten minate break. then spend another 10 minutes reviewing what you did and running through the new stuff. Review it again a few hours later. then the next day. then again around three days after that.

    Engagement is doing something with the information you have learned , processing it or packaging it in some way. e.g writing notes or a summary.

    video is a important way of keeping a record of the kata. this is good for when you get totally stuck. But it is not as helpful as one might hope because watching a video can be a passive process there is not much engagement.

    Start writing notes of your kata. Once you start this you will find that it is a lot easier said than done. but working out your own system and applying it is a great way to engage with and process what you are learning.

    way points are a good thing to have in your note system - e.g right leg leading in tiger stance, left hand in fist punch to bladder, right hand in fist pulled to right hip. facing north.

    This gives you a place where you can drop in to the form to begin to practice at any point. - this is important because if you allways start a form at the beginning you are allways running low on strength, gas, and concentration by the end of a long form . which means that you dont practice the end parts as well
     
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  13. Fish Of Doom

    Fish Of Doom Will : Mind : Motion Supporter

    Thinking of different applications to the movements can help, because then you have an "outside" bit that ties together different movements from the sequence and turns them into one "chunk" rather than several separate bits. Also look for repeated sequences (many kata have identical or mirrored sequences done 2-4 times throughout), which are going to both be easier to remember than sequences that are different, and also serve as reference points for the sequences immediately before and after (ie this bit feeds into repeat bit 1, which feeds into this other bit, while this other bit goes to repeat bit 2 and then this different bit).
     
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  14. pgsmith

    pgsmith Valued dismemberer

    As the arts that I practice are all kata based, there are various tricks to help with memorizing kata. These are the ones I most often recommend ...

    1) Break them down. Rather than thinking of a long kata as a single sequence of events, break them into smaller pieces. Think of them as a number of short kata strung together, and memorize the short kata.
    2) Notes! After each class, spend 15 or 20 minutes writing notes on the kata. Movement sequences, foot directions, things that were specifically corrected by the instructor, etc ... The act of writing these notes, and reading through them later, will help cement the action in your mind.
    3) Practice! This means not just trying to perform the actual kata, but going through the footwork, or doing the whole kata in your head while standing in line at the grocery or taking a break at work. Refer to your notes when you come to a spot you can't remember.
    4) More notes! Take some time at home to write detailed notes as you get the kata down. Making detailed notes causes you to think harder about the movements since you need to describe them. Detailed notes are also useful later on. I have several notebooks filled with notes that I still refer to now and then to make sure I am doing things correctly.
    5) Picture your opponent. In the kata, your opponent is always taking an action, which causes your actions. If you work hard to picture exactly what your imaginary opponent is doing, the actions you take will be easier to remember and understand than simply rote memorization as if they were dance steps.

    Good luck!
     
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  15. Tom bayley

    Tom bayley Valued Member

    Correcting a typo - post above should have read

     
  16. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    There are 2 methods.

    1. Use your hands only - You move your hands as your arms but in much smaller moves without any leg movement involved. You can do this on the bus, or walking when your hands are free.
    2. Use your mind only - This is a bit harder. You use your mind to do the whole form. You can do this even if your hands are busy.
     
  17. Tom bayley

    Tom bayley Valued Member

    Totally agree with you know who - visualisation along with small rehearsal movements (kinesthetic memory) a key part of high level physical activity ( check on you tube to watch bob slay drivers before a run). I still do this with my forms quite a few years after first learning them.

    What hands and mind do not give easily you is a sense of momentum. Momentum is easily overlooked in favour of technique / application. As Fish points out application is an important part of remembering forms and forms are an important aid to learning application. Thinking about application tends to place the focus of the mind outside the body to what you want to do the the opponent. Feeling the momentum (direction of movement of force and of body weight) in forms tends to focus the mind inside the body on feeling how you are moving.

    Later on when you are doing partner work practising application you can recall the feeling of momentum and use it do drive the applications. so oddly focusing on momentum in the forms rather than on application can improve your practice of application. which in turn can improve your understanding and memory of the form.

    Varying the way you do the form. sometimes focusing on application. sometimes on momentum. sometimes on power. sometimes on speed. sometimes on balance. sometimes on being aware of your surroundings. sometimes on how the movements expand and contract the rib cage pushing air in and out of the lungs. All of this can help you to begin to understand the many layers that exist within a traditional form or kata.

    The better you understand a kata the less you need to rely on "brute force" rote learning memory and the easier it is to remember.
     
  18. Langenschwert

    Langenschwert Molon Labe

    Here's a trick for memorizing music which works for some people: learn it from the back. Do the last move. Then do the second last, and then the last, adding one more each time. That way you're always going into something you know, and you're less likely to get "stuck".
     
  19. axelb

    axelb Master of Office Chair Fu

    With the wushu forms which I found long (100+ steps) they were taught in parts; this made it easier to consume and refer to in practice.

    After working on it, you could identify the part that needed more work and focus on it.

    Videos are a great reference also, certainly worth filming yourself to help progress.
     
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