Any reputable Kickboxing (NOT Muay Thai) clubs in Manchester, England?

Discussion in 'Kickboxing' started by Jocky Balboa, Apr 30, 2008.

  1. Moi

    Moi Warriors live forever x

    No idea. I was in Manchester at a wholesalers and I remembered your quest. I asked the guy who I was dealing with and he said he taught kickboxing as well as M/T
    I saw him work a bag as a demo of the bag (see my gym thread - cool bag)
    For the little that he did he knew what he was doing.
    The rest is up to you
     
  2. Jocky Balboa

    Jocky Balboa Valued Member

    I'm not asking anyone to do all my work, I'm simply pointing out that info on Kickboxing in Manchester is very thin on the ground (not surprising, when one considers that I'm living in the Muay Thai capital of the UK, but frustrating nonetheless).

    I will indeed do my homework and thanks to you and Martial Dad for your input. ;)
     
  3. JayC2301

    JayC2301 New Member


    I train under Chris at Salford Uni and at his gym in Chorlton on Monday's and Wednesday's during the holidays. Come down some time and try it out for yourself is probably the best thing to tell you.
     
  4. Jocky Balboa

    Jocky Balboa Valued Member

    The website is still a work in progress and the contact page doesn't list any e-mail addresses with which to get in touch. Is there a suitable time and place to go, in order to either speak to Chris, or even come and watch a class, so that I may see for myself what it's like?

    Also, I have read up on Chris Boughey and he seems well-respected. However the website says nothing of the Club's competition profile. Can you tell us more about that (ie. what rules do you compete in, be it semi-contact, full-contact, light continuous, etc. and what sort of competition record the club has), if you may?

    Thanks for your input thus far! :)
     
  5. JayC2301

    JayC2301 New Member

    I don't know about e-mail address(es) but his numbers 07774 723 839 if you wish to speak to him.

    The beginers kick boxing class starts at 6 tomorrow. I'm not sure if Chris takes it himself or if one of the other senior instructors does, they'll be more than happy to help you. Chris took last weeks senior class at half 7 (straight after the begginers class).

    If you want to come down to the gym then get there about 10/15 min before class and speak to one of the black belts.

    I'm not to well up on the clubs competition side, so you'd need to speak to Chris or the senior instructors about it.
     
  6. Master edwards

    Master edwards New Member

    Chorlton Black Belt Academy

    Hi Super Foot,

    How you doing? Heard Chorlton Black Belt Academy is not very good. I take it you have been to the school or is it just hearsay from a friend.

    Now super foot I have been in the business of martial arts for a long time and i can see from your quote that you know what you are talking about. I'm the chief instructor for the school, Wayne Edwards. I am well known to Master Sken whom i got my Senior grade in Thai, Dave Breed of Evade martial arts, Jo Turney of Shorai whos team I represented on clash of the Titans twice, Dave Morris of Elite, Bob and Tony sykes - editor of Martial arts illustrated whom i got my senior grade in Escrima with.

    Super foot I am presently team coach for the WPKa British light contact team. I am presently on Team Venom whos team captain is Micheal Page, the worlds number one semi contact fighter pound for pound.

    Super foot, I don't beleive a good tournament record ensures a person will be a great instructor however, i have been world number 3 twice, FSK Grand Champion when the FSK's was tough, Fought with the WKA britsh team and I am a member of the GBMAA. As far as references go email any top coaches in the country such as Curtis Page of the GBMAA, Chris Sparkes of welsh Taekwondo, John Loyd of leeds, Master Sken, Bob and Tony Sykes, ....

    As far as producing champions. I have produced numerous world, european and British champions.

    As far as well rounded students. I have tought a great number of students to be open minded, stay focused and to persist in anything they put their mind to to achieve there goals. I am sorry but there are many cow boys that will charge a couple a quid for a knock about in a hired hall however my two schools are full time centres.

    Super foot, I charge what i am worth and as a martial artist i am well rounded i will never ever sell myself short.

    Thank you for your views on my school.

    Your in Martial arts.

    Wayne Edwards.

    P.s. This email is not an email which is ment to slag off anyone or encourage them to come to my school. Its just about having my say.
     
  7. Moi

    Moi Warriors live forever x

    I do hope you stick around master Edwards, you're input on this forum might be greatly appriciated.
     
  8. Master edwards

    Master edwards New Member

    Hi Jocky Balboa,

    Just recently noticed this blog about chorlton Black blet academy and your search for a kickboxing school. I love the expression of a MAc Dojo. What does that mean. Must admit as nieve as it may sound i like the expression. Mac donalds is one of the biggest franchises in existance. I was in Egypt the other day and i was'nt sure about the food and the first thing i looked for was a Mcdonalds. You know it is my ambition to have a successful chain of full time martial arts schools through out the country, teach not just great martial arts but also building a network of like minded positive people from all proffesional backgrounds.

    I notice you have trained for five years so let me take you back to 1979 when i started. It was a judo class, an old scout hoot were dropped our 50p in the pot and got thrown about on concrete floors. For many schools little has changed.

    Now i am not emailing you to encourage you to come down to my school. Just love the idea of engaging in conversation on blogs as this is all new to me.

    I suppose you want to know more about me. I just answered some guy call super foot and gave hime a run down on myself and i suppose you will se the feed.

    I am well known to Master Sken whom i got my Senior grade in Thai, Dave Breed of Evade martial arts, Jo Turney of Shorai whos team I represented on clash of the Titans twice, Dave Morris of Elite, Bob and Tony sykes - editor of Martial arts illustrated whom i got my senior grade in Escrima with.

    I am presently team coach for the WPKa British light contact team. I am presently on Team Venom whos team captain is Micheal Page, the worlds number one semi contact fighter pound for pound.

    I don't beleive a good tournament record ensures a person will be a great instructor however, i have been world number 3 twice, FSK Grand Champion when the FSK's was tough, Fought with the WKA britsh team and I am a member of the GBMAA. As far as references go email any top coaches in the country such as Curtis Page of the GBMAA, Chris Sparkes of welsh Taekwondo, John Loyd of leeds, Master Sken, Bob and Tony Sykes, ....

    I am probably blessed to be a good competitor and coach. As I have produced world, european and British champions.

    As far as well rounded students. I have tought a great number of students to be open minded, stay focused and to persist in anything they put their mind to to achieve there goals.

    I know you mentioned about Mcdojos handing out black blelts. In my case a black belt is not just handed out for fun. Our Belts hold a great deal of significance our belts are a record of knowledge based on our curriculum.

    Enough about me. what about you.

    Who did you train with before?
     
  9. Moi

    Moi Warriors live forever x

    The Mcdojo is more a dig about the quality of the food (training) than it is about the success of Mcdonalds, although commercial success does play a part.
    We realise that certain commercial practices have to be adopted to be able to run a successful martial arts business, with some clubs that's all they offer. They are Mcdojos.
     
  10. Master edwards

    Master edwards New Member

    Mc Dojo

    Hi martial arts Dad,

    Thanks for that info. I think the debate on quality has always been around when it comes to the martial arts but as you know the proof of the pudding is in the eating. Shame the name mc dojo from what you are saying is a discriptive word for a poor quality commercial school. I love the name, I think of McDonalds as a mega successful company, with dependable fast food. mind you I heard if you eat to much of it , it will kill you.

    Martial arts dad have we ever crossed paths as it is so difficult to know who you are talking to when everyone has an alias.<removed>

    Please don't post personal contact information on the forum, thanks - Sam
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 20, 2008
  11. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

    Master Edwards,

    Thanks for your post.

    In my original post I stated that a friend of mine visited your club for a short while and stated that the training was like I described [in my original post].

    I don't take much stock in hearsay, as the majority of the time it is from a friend of a friend of a friend of a friend... and so on. However, my friend is, to me very trustworthy, considering we served in the army together. He has practised martial arts for many years, longer than myself, and his opinions are usually spot on. Therefore I trust his advice.

    Irrespective of my friend's opinion, your website (www.chorltonbba.com) shows many signs of being a "McDojo". Such as:-

    - Lil Dragons programs
    - The generic speech your school uses on its homepage - I've seen pretty much the exact same script on other websites of well-established McDojos (I'll post examples when I find them again)
    - "More people train in our organisation than any other Martial Arts school in England" - um, don't think so. I'm pretty sure any of the main Taekwondo associations, as organisations, are bigger than your martial arts school(s)
    - "I'm prepared to give you over £100 of member benefits absolutely FREE" - c'mon, what's that all about? Are those the same "benefits" that other schools give away for free? A common theme is to give a "free consultancy" - I'm pretty sure most schools around the globe do this anyway without trying to package it as a selling point to attract more students (or is that "customers"?)

    There's other things I could pick at, but the whole exercise is pointless really. The original poster asked for opinions on your school, and I gave my opinion based on my friend's experience training at your school, as well as my opinions formed from browsing your website.

    You can teach how you like and sell your programs how you like. I was simply giving my opinion based on what I've heard [from a trusted friend] and what I've seen from your website.

    It's up to the readers to decide whether my opinion is valid or not.

    But remember, it's just an opinion, and you don't have to like it or pay any attention to it. :)

    As far as your credentials go, you certainly have an impressive track record.

    However, I don't have much faith in Bob Sykes because of my personal experience with him when I visited his Colne Valley Black Belt Academy, and the fact he seems to let any Tom, Dick or Harry on the cover of MAI these days is even less appealing (no offence at all intended to the talented martial artists who do grace its cover).

    And while Joe Tierney had an impressive fight record, his Shorai association is notorious for awarding black belts to cowboys. For example, a school in my local area was formed by two brothers who didn't achieve a black belt under anyone. When Trading Standards started to investigate them for fraud, they ran to Joe Tierney who, a week later, awards them both the rank of 2nd Dan. I don't know what Joe's motivations were [one can hazard a guess], but I'll leave it at that and let everyone else make their own assumptions.

    I wish you all the best with your school(s).

    Kind regards,
     
  12. Master edwards

    Master edwards New Member

    Hi super foot

    Thanks for your message.

    I totaly missunderstood you. I thought your friend use to train with us. He came down for a few lessons. I appolgise.

    Super foot lets just go with th epositive for a minute. I can't comment on you dealings with Joe Turney, I am not in the Shorai organisation. But your right Joe has a fantastic competition record and has done a lot for the sport. From the look of your picture your either very young are well preserved like myself. Joe was the captain for the Warriors which Chris Boughey was a part of, th Sykes brother chris Williams, etc. these guys took on all comers, Taekwondo (Love taekwondo love the sport, very limited on the hands but i love the kicks.) I was merely mentioning Joe as one who knows of me.

    You also shot down Bob Sykes a bit. Bob is another pionner of the sport and as far as Escrima is concerned Bobs the man and opinion can't change it.

    Super foot, I would realy love to hear your opinion on the other pionners of the sport i mentioned as i suppose no one is with out blemish or rough edges.
    One of my mentors is Master Sken and if a bad word is said about him it will be like insulting one of family members.


    As far as organisations go. I am a bit long in the tooth to talk about my dad is bigger than your dad. The organsiation we are a part of is the Great Briatin Martial arts association, were huge. I'm just one assocaite and i have over 350 members spread accross both my schools. The Gbmaa spreads from scotland. ireland, wales and England. The preseident is Curtis paige.

    Love the Mcdojo phrase. Love the idea that little dragons is a mark of a Mac Dojo. Little Dragons is such a valuable program. My little girl went through little dragons. I teachs all the tenants of Taekwondo in a fun family attmosphere that a 3 to 6 year old can understand. I think ignorance is bliss and i suppose ignorance has produce many a small mind. Super foot dispense with your disbeleif for one second and truely check out little dragons. Every infant should go through that program. We would have more positive, confident kids.

    Differant characters make the world go round. Love communicating with you. If your on facebook, join my personal one wayne edwards. If your into competition we would love another tough nut and you don't have to be in the club to be kept in the loop. You can even join the group to tell the rest of the guys how rubbish you think they are and promote you site. Honestly and seriously you make are sport and business intresting.

    Love, respect and honour,
     
  13. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

    Master Edwards,

    I did not intend for the tone of my words to sound aggressive. If they did, I do apologise. I'm 24 so I guess I can be considered "young", although I've been doing martial arts since I was 4 years old, and after 20 years I've seen a few things in this industry which make me a bit cynical.

    Your intentions certainly seem honest enough and I'm convinced you're the real deal.

    Again, I apologise if I seemed rude or aggressive, just seen a lot of bad things over the years.

    I really admire Chris Boughey. I think he is a fantastic technician and a superb fighter.

    I can't say anything positive or negative about Tony Sykes as I've never dealt with him.

    As for Bob, I think he is a great technician also. However, I was made to doubt his intentions through my dealings with him. Plus, and I'm sure a lot of people might agree with me on this, the standards at MAI seem to be slipping. Just an observation. Bob is a decent enough guy, I just don't like the way he deals with a lot of other martial artists (in a purely business sense).

    I can't comment on Bob's ability in Escrima, or with Escrima as an art in general, because I don't train in that system. But I'll take your word for it that Bob is as good as you say he is, and I'm sure he is a great guy, but it's just that I've been quite disappointed by his actions in the past.

    But I'll leave it at that as far as Bob Sykes is concerned.

    As well, I can't say anything about Dave Breed, Dave Morris or Michael Page because I've never dealt with them nor heard or read anything about them.

    I'll admit that Master Sken is an absolute legend. I've trained with him in Stockport and his technical ability is superb. I couldn't say a bad word about the guy.

    I'm not a fan of programs like Lil Dragons, or even the TAGB's own Tigers programme (TAGB is my main association), because I don't believe in martial arts being watered down into "fun and games", which is what I see those sort of programmes being. I guess they work for some, and not for others, and I fall into the second group. My martial arts training started at the age of four and the training was exactly the same for me as it was for the adults, and I think I was better of for it that way. As a child I reacted to that environment better, and so I advocate the same methods to children that I teach. I do probably come across as a bit of a drill sergeant, though! :) I also feel this way about those programs because a lot of McDojos use them (sorry, can't stop using that word!), and their adult programs tend to be designed the same way "fun and games". But that's not to say reputable martial arts clubs don't use them also, which is probably the case with your school.

    I get the feeling I'm coming off as a miserable old fart who has nothing good to say about anyone or in martial arts. I'm just going by what I've observed and forming my own opinions.

    I have to admit, Master Edwards, that after speaking with you I certainly view your school in a different, more positive light.

    All the best.

    Kind regards,
     
  14. Moi

    Moi Warriors live forever x

    They sell crap food though, bottom line it's not fit for human consumption

    I don't think so, just being friendly. Stick around and tell us a bit about yourself and your club, maybe in a new thread. More the merrier here.
     
  15. Joe Tierney

    Joe Tierney New Member

    I am Joe Tierney and I shall treat your comment with the slanderous contempt that it deserves. I have been in martial arts for 37 years. My credentials speak for themselves.
    Therefore I do not believe you have any right or authority to question my actions. End of chat.
     
  16. Jocky Balboa

    Jocky Balboa Valued Member

    The other posters speak for themselves, as do I. I have said nothing against you or your club, as I have no knowledge of it. Why not tell us more?
     
  17. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

    I think he was referring to my previous comments, which were not slanderous. They were a personal opinion based on events in my local area.

    The individuals I referred to, who claim they were promoted to black belt by Joe Tierney, are of questionable quality that I do not think they should call themselves martial arts instructors. Their technical proficiency is questionable; their purported experience is questionable; their business practices are questionable. This opinion is based on communications received from their former instructor, and from them; my personal observations; and interviews with their present and former students.

    But that's all old news (my original comment was made 8 months ago!). I've moved on from it.

    Joe Tierney, my comment was just my opinion. I am entitled to it, as you are entitled to yours, as are all human beings. I apologise if mine offended you.
     
  18. d0ugbug

    d0ugbug learning to smile

    I was brought up like you Superfoot taught the old way and done what everyone else done. But like everything times change I do think the best way to get youngsters into martial arts these days is by introducing "fun and games" other wise they mess about and distract the rest of the class.

    Point me to a 5-8 year old who does not like to run around and race each other up and down a hall?

    Id far rather have 20 little boys and girls pick teams, race up to a line, do some sit ups, jumps, run on more, punch and kick a pad, and kick through some hoops and get to the end of the race. Than try and keep them interested in standing around in a line.

    Why its fun, it keeps them fit and interested and thats all that matters these days, once they come up through the ranks you start to step things up a bit and build on what they have been doing
     
  19. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

    Good points d0ugbug, and it is for those reasons I've stopped concerning myself with other clubs in my area. Each to their own.

    I realise my traditional martial arts upbringing makes me come off as somewhat cynical at times, but I'm just expressing an opinion like everyone else. I apologise to anyone my views offend, but they're just opinions after all.

    Good points though d0ugbug :cool:
     
  20. d0ugbug

    d0ugbug learning to smile

    hey superfoot it did not offend i was just adding my 2p for using such a system, my comments are not intended to sound harsh just the way i type i guess.
     

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