Any more Like Fairbairns "Get Tough???

Discussion in 'Western Martial Arts' started by SB1970, Jul 23, 2008.

  1. SB1970

    SB1970 Valued Member

    Hi all
    I've just bought Fairbairn's Get Tough,what a brilliant little book!!!!
    Some of the moves are similar to the Bujikan that I'm learning at the moment.
    I do think these books have a place and a use apart from just historical interest-there is only so many ways to puch,kick elbow ect
    I've also ordered Jack Dempsey's How to get Tough,can any of you experts please reconmend any other old style or historic slf defence books???


    ps they don't have to have tough in the title lol:)
  2. Louie

    Louie STUNT DAD Supporter

    The Science of Self Defence
    A Treatise on Sparring and Wrestling
    By Edmund Price 1867

    The famous Farmer Burns Mail Order Course
    Scanned direct from a 1912 set of lessons

    Wrestling from Donald Walkers 1840 text "Defensive Exercises"

    Historical Fencing Manuals
    Lots of them, from 13th century on

    Brief History of the Quarterstaff

    Quarter-Staff:A Practical Manual
    by Thomas A. McCarthy, 1883

    Kirk's Stuff;

  3. SB1970

    SB1970 Valued Member

    Thank you very much Louie,your a star
    any more reconmendations on books guys????
  4. Sweeper

    Sweeper Banned Banned

    "Kill or Get Killed"
  5. lklawson

    lklawson Valued Member

    I'm currently in the midst of republishing Boxing and How to Train (1913). When done, it will go on my lulu store with the others ("Kirk's Stuff" above).

    Peace favor your sword,
  6. SB1970

    SB1970 Valued Member

    Thats Rex Alppegate's book is'nt it?
    I did get this on a free download from this board i think,it's ok just a little to broad for my taste-too much gun work but still interesting!
  7. SB1970

    SB1970 Valued Member

    Thank you Kirk-the American Jujitsu looks very interesting!!!
  8. lklawson

    lklawson Valued Member

    Quite welcome.

    Be sure to check out Jason's site (the "sponsor" for that particular republishing project).

    Peace favor your sword,
  9. Polar Bear

    Polar Bear Moved on

    I saw a brief fairbairn sykes demo at Celtic Echange this year by Paul MacDonald and Mike Smith. It's interesting stuff though finding someone to train you in it would be a challenge now. The original commandoes would all be in their 80s I guess and I dunno if anyone kept the training going.

    The Bear.
  10. RAbid Hamster

    RAbid Hamster Herr Trubelmacher

    since there is the odd report in the media of 80yr olds taking down neds/chavs trying to mug them ... and it gets mentioned that the oldies were paras/commandos during the war ... think they remember the moves pretty well! :D
  11. Louie

    Louie STUNT DAD Supporter

    Much of this type of WWII military training has been revived under the name "Defendo", a martial art and self defense system created in 1945 for military & law enforcement by Bill Underwood, a British born Canadian. Underwood was originally the creator of Combato a "non-boxing or wrestling" unarmed combat system which he taught at Camp X in Canada.


    [ame=""]Bayonet - YouTube[/ame]

    [ame=""]A SOLDIERS THOUGHTS | Bill Wolfe | Wolfes Combatives - YouTube[/ame]

    Fairbairn & Applegate Unarmed Combat Training, WWII

    [ame=""]Fairbairn's Unarmed Combat Training, WWII - YouTube[/ame]

    [ame=""]Fairbairn and Applegate conducting OSS Training at the Unite - YouTube[/ame]

  12. lklawson

    lklawson Valued Member

    Ralph Grasso is in the Defendu lineage and trained under Carl Cestari.

    He's generally quite approachablel, willing to share, and frequents several WMA oriented lists, mostly the Yahoo Groups ones.

    Ralph posted his Military close quarters chops as:

    "certified in close combat and marine corps jiu jitsu under charles nelson, [...] and cqc certified under carl cestari"

    Peace favor your sword,
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2008
  13. Polar Bear

    Polar Bear Moved on

    Interesting but either my google fu is bust or I can't find a defendu club in the UK.
    A club inspired by defendu but no actual club claiming to do it. Now there is a nice little market for someone to spot. ;)

    The Bear.
  14. Louie

    Louie STUNT DAD Supporter
    They use the Royal Armoury in Leeds & Monthly Defendo Training Class are in Huddersfield

  15. cdnronin

    cdnronin Valued Member

  16. cdnronin

    cdnronin Valued Member

    Standard rant. Bill Wolfe and Modern Defendo(as shown in some of the clips you posted), have nothing to do with Underwod's Defendo. Bill Wolfe and Modern Defendo have no discernable connection to Camp X and Fairbairn's teachings. Underwood's Defendo has no relationship to Fairbairn's style of instruction, as it depends much more on pressure points and joint manipulations, techniques that are explicitly reccomended against using in the 1944 Silent killing Syllabus(sometimes acredited to Sykes). There is lots of circumstantial evidence linking Underwood with Camp X, but he does not appear on any staff list, unlike people such as Fairbairn and Relekowsky.

    To the OP, look for the 1943 edition of Kill or Get Killed, not the 1976 edition that you probably downloaded. Check out paladin press for reprints of most of Fairbairn's books, including Defendu, Scientific Self defense, hands Off! and Get tough! also check out the Naval Aviation V-5 manual on hand to hand combat, AJ Biddle's Do or Die!(if you can find the 1944 edition it is much better than the 1937 edition) John Styer's Cold Steel and Perrigard's Arwrology. Most of these books have been scanned, a little digging around on the net should find them, if not, cough up the money for the reprints, or save your peniies and buy the originals.
  17. Louie

    Louie STUNT DAD Supporter

    Hi cdnronin

    Thanks for clearing that up!

  18. Terao

    Terao Valued Member

    Wow only in leeds? thats on my door-step hmmmm might be a nice little idea to go have a look and expand alittle on what I already know.
  19. Kobela

    Kobela New Member

    Dudes, if you want to hook up with a the direct lineage of the Fairbairn style of WWII hand to hand training contact . Damian Ross is the head hancho and he was trained in this by Carl Cestari. As far as defending yourself in a real street encounter (not a macho ****ing contest) this stuff is the quickest and easiest to learn and retain under stress. No other system has proven itself effective to the degree and frequency this system has. We're talking from way before WWII actually. I attended Mr. Ross' seminar last May (08) and was very impressed. As the 'attacker' I found that when the 'defense' techniques began I was completely unable to regain any momentum or effectively attack! Nor was I able to defend myself from the defenders attacks.
    And about the Jack Dempsey book...awesome and valid today. But the technique he used to generate his tremendous power - the drop step or weight drop - is part of the Fairbairn/Cestari/Ross lexicon as well. Watch the very first Carl Cestari DVD where he teaches the opening gambit defensive edge of hand strike to the throat of the attacker --- DROP STEP to generate tremendous power!
    ALL traditional fighting arts are valid and worth pursuing but are usually just different ways of doing the same thing. If you don't have many years to devote to actually learning to defend yourself, check out The Self Defense Company. You'll be in the company of people like Mr. Fairbairn, Applegate, Sykes, O'Neil and others who really know how to get down to business - without learning a foreign language. Thomas Kobela
  20. cdnronin

    cdnronin Valued Member

    The drop step is not part of the Fairbairn legacy, it was Carl's contribution to combatives. You will not find any reference to the drop step in any of Fairbairn's books, nor see it in any film of Fairbairn. The drop step comes from Dempsey, no arguement there.

    The Dempsey book referred to by the OP does not explain the drop step, that comes from Championship Fighting. How to Fight Tough is a book on the techniques that Dempsey taught in conjunction with Bernard Cosneck to the Coast Guard during WWII.
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2008

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