Are there any Karate schools out there with no belt or ranking system of any kind? You know, kinda like the old school Kung Fu and MMA schools. I'm wondering because I'm considering staying with my Karate style until I become proficient enough to start my own school. If I start my own school, I'm thinking of just leaving out all the belt ranking and formality bullcrap, since I personally don't care about any of that when I'm practicing martial arts.
hmm, I'm guessing someone failed the evaluation or a rival has successfully graded and is rubbing it in your face, am I close?
well then check out the karate schools in your area. if you can't find a school that doesn't use belts, go to the best quality school, learn as much as you can. you don't have to grade. it shouldn't be a must. when you think that you're skilled enough to start your own school, go for it. but think about the age of your future students. for example kids love belts. it's a kind of motivation for them. they actually look forward to getting the belt. adults don't seem to mind getting belts either but we're all different.
While being on here I've noticed talks about lots of Mcdojos in different styles. But now looking at someone wanting to simply start their own dojo just based on the experience that they've gained how is he going to satisfy ppls curiousity in him being a qualified instructor for karate without ever having earned a dan grade or for that matter any kind of belt ? Just because he would have karate experience wouldn't necessarily qualify him to be an instructor. Looking at my senseis there is a legitiate reason they are allowed to teach. They earned all the belts in the style, became a 1.st dan and have teached and been checked on by other masters. If I would have someone claiming he would have 15-20 yrs. of karate experience but can't even show a belt or even a teaching certificate for it I would definitley think he was part of a Mcdojo...... Of course that throws open the question: How do you know if a dojo actually is a Mcdojo ? Too many honours and affiliations and you also become suspicious but with none isn't there a reason also to be suspicious ? Christian
I'm not looking for a school specifically in my area that teaches Karate without a belt ranking system. I'm wondering if there's anyone out there doing it that way. I intend to recieve at least a Shodan in my current style before starting my own school or private teaching, given that I decide to stay with my current style rather than switch. I prefer the MMA and old school Kung Fu way of teaching martial arts. No ranking system, gradings, or foreign formalities. Just long hours of practicing forms, conditioning, sparring, sweating, bleeding, and all that good stuff. Should I open my own school, I don't want it to be a general Karate that safely caters to the same crowd as an everyday Shotokan school (no offense to you Shotokan practitioners). I don't even care about making money as a teacher.
I found the dude's website, but it looks like he indeed uses belts. Oh well. Looks like a pretty good school. I know belt systems are beneficial when it comes to kids and the majority of the public because it gives them goals to strive for, but I see several problems underneath that. Goals are good. However, my problem with the belt system is the inconsistency between schools: Different requirements and grading methods. Plus when switching schools the rank one holds from previous training often means jack-squat to the new school they join: someone who previously recieved a 3rd dan at one school gets bumped back down to 2nd or 1st dan at another school. That crap ****es me off and makes the belt system pretty absolete. Also, many schools use the belt system as a means to make extra cash; taking advantage of the ignorant public. I'm glad my current school doesn't do that, since I'm already paying their asses $80 a month (overpriced in my opinion). The only reason I'm still sticking with Karate is that I like the over-all system, or techniques. If I can become proficient enough to both teach karate and effectively fight using karate, I can at least try to develop some new generations of Karateka that aren't a joke in the eyes MMAs and other more serious combat MAs.
Ah but Evil Betty that was my old site, I'm working on my new one. Haduken is indeed correct in that I would very much like to abandon grades altogether. My biggest concern is fitting in with the big picture of karate i.e attending seminars, etc. If you keep to your own dojo walls then by all means give it all up. So what I have done is reduced the belts to green, brown + black, that's it. You don't grade for it you just reach the level and have it awarded, no fuss. To reward students I give certificates for blocks of hours trained. They pay a monthly fee which covers everything except seminars. There's alot of other stuff I've abandoned. My guys come, train, go home.
IMHO, you've got it wrong (or have been unlucky and come across the wrong schools). Credentials, rankings, and affiliations are important. If you don't have the credentials, then it would be inappropriate to start a school. If you don't do rankings (belts), then how can people measure progress? If you don't have affiliations, how can you know how good you are? Also, consider insurance. In our style, the licence fee includes insurance. What happens if somebody is injured and there's no insurance? A proper licence and grading record is a useful document. In the UK, you can't buy some weapons (eg. nunchaku) from MA shops without a current licence. If you don't have external examiners, how will you prevent yourself giving grades to people based on familiarity rather than skill? If you do give out grades, will they have any merit in the real world?
Update: I've left my Karate dojo. I love the place, really I do. But ultimately I'm just not convinced it'll take me where I want to go. From here I'm probably going to go the kickboxing/muay Thai route. Heh, this thread's purpose has pretty much been destroyed. I have to agree with many of you that trying to abandon the belts altogether would not be a good idea. People think of belts when they think of Karate, period. "My guys come, train, and go home." And that's the way I like it. Well, maybe add "go to the bar and pick up hot chicks, then go home".
If you don't do rankings (belts), then how can people measure progress? By how well they perform??? If you don't have affiliations, how can you know how good you are? By how well you perform. Of course when you step outside your own dojo environment you will get a feel for how you compare to the rest of the martial community. Progression within an association is very blinkered. Also, consider insurance. In our style, the licence fee includes insurance. What happens if somebody is injured and there's no insurance? Licence fee is personal insurance but is not essential. Your school should hold insurance that covers for public liability, it is important to have this in place but is available from a number of independent groups, such a AMA. A proper licence and grading record is a useful document. In the UK, you can't buy some weapons (eg. nunchaku) from MA shops without a current licence. That's simply not the case. If you don't have external examiners, how will you prevent yourself giving grades to people based on familiarity rather than skill? By using a syllabus criteria and being objective. If you award a grade simply out of famililiarity then you shouldn't be teaching. If you do give out grades, will they have any merit in the real world? Does that matter anyway?
Evil Betty, I am not trying to be nasty or anything here, but I wanted to know how you can have the knowledge to be able to start a school and teach with as low a rank as shodan? Maybe it is because I have been taught in a McDojo (GKR) and seen the error in my thinking but I do not believe that people should be teaching MA at such a low rank. Do you really have the knowledge and understanding to become a teacher? It takes many many years to understand Karate and it's teachings, at shodan you have only taken your first step along the path. As for belt rankings, at the club I train in now (goju kai) everyone wears a white belt until they achieve black belt - I haven't seen any other colours yet and other students have been training a few years longer than me. To my knowledge to get accredition with JKA and AKF and some other karate associations it is required to have minimum Sandan ranking. I am unsure of the way this is assessed. After my experience with GKR I would never go to a club unless I contacted the associations such as AKF. I now keep away from any club that may have been associated with GKR or is a GKR breakaway.
Talking about mcdojos what dan do you exspect the teacher to be my teacher is first dan but the teacher but the previous teacher who is seventh dan he dose the grading at my dojo Regards Dean
If my goal were still to learn and teach Karate, I would achieve whatever rank required to open a school. I just figured shodan was the bare minimum requirement for opening a school. Some would say that's a good thing. I say Karate takes so long to learn because the teachers want it to. Not the martial art for me.
My own system has rank, but it's really nothing more than a milestone marker. I have three different Phases up through Black Belt. Phase I: White through Green Phase II: Green through Blue Phase III: Red through Brown 2nd Level There are several levels of each belt or rank. 20 Kyu's in all. I am more concerned as to the progress shown throughout the whole phase, than with the rank given with that phase. The Black Belt itself, is not one for instructorship. It is what I call a Provisional Level. It is followed by the next step of Shodan, then Nidan, and finally the Instructor level of Sandan. At Provisional BB level, one fine tunes one's ability to fight given a variety of realistic scenarios. Quality of time put in, is more important than quantity of time. However there is a direct correlation between the two, and maximum results occur when they are given equal weight.
I only know of one school like that in my area..and it's a city away...but it's not karate..it's Aikido..but it's an awesome school...you wear ur white belt until u get a black..don't get me wrong..u get promoted and move according to rank..but the sensei doesn't care bout belts..so neither does his students..the only exception are the kids classes..cuz kids love belts..
This doesn't seem to hang together, something's weird... If I felt like it I'd train to shodan and start a school...?! I haven't really got a clue but I think it's a good idea...:-/ I don't understand why it's done but I can do better...! C'mon, please - this thread is a wind-up, isn't it?
I know I can be confusing. I'm just trying to figure out what direction I want to take in MA. If you read more of my posts, you'll notice I often have a hostile attitude towards traditional MA. It's not because I hate them, but because I'm frustrated with bad teachers and training methods. Also, I have a rather gemini type of personality, and thus I change my mind constantly.
