Any body got any questions about hung gar or five animals styles?

Discussion in 'Kung Fu' started by Tom bayley, Sep 28, 2017.

  1. Tom bayley

    Tom bayley Valued Member

    Been quiet for a while on the kung fu front.

    Any one got any questions of a general five animal nature or about hung gar in particular?
     
  2. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

  3. Knee Rider

    Knee Rider Valued Member Supporter

    I was once told that the animal fist (whose name escapes me but is comprised of an outward index finger with the remaining fingers curled) can be used to puncture the human body and pull out a rib.

    I don't believe this. What do you think?
     
  4. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Like this?

     
  5. Tom bayley

    Tom bayley Valued Member

    I think that you are correct not to believe this. I think that the person who told you that is an idiot.

    Note it is possible for the force of any strike to create a compound fracture where the bone breaks the skin. But in my personal opinion it is not likely that anyone could do this reliably or predictably, with prior intent.

    This said some bones are structurally weak, e.g, the collar bone, the floating rib, the jaw when struck at certain angles. some animal hand strikes attempt to exploit these weaknesses to break the bone and cause additional damage. but this is a bonus not a forgone conclusion.
     
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  6. Tom bayley

    Tom bayley Valued Member

    Dude that video is 41 minutes long pleas clarify what "this" you are referring to.

    Although, thanks for sharing, I had not seen that before , lots of nice stuff. :)
     
  7. Tom bayley

    Tom bayley Valued Member

    What? None at all?
     
  8. Knee Rider

    Knee Rider Valued Member Supporter

    They may be an idiot or they may have been trying to over sell what they do.

    I heard it at a seminar from a sigung. I was curious whether the idea is pervasive within hung gar and my own conclusions and ideas are more or less the same as yours.
     
  9. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    I just meant to ask if that was the style you were referring to. I know next to nothing about kung fu styles.

    There's lots of very dubious applications in that video! Spear hands to the sternum, panther claws to the shoulders, punches that couldn't actually hit the intended target with force because the trapped limb is blocking the path etc...
     
  10. Rataca100

    Rataca100 Banned Banned

    I have one, why do they think its a good idea to mimic animals they are not? Or do they just humanaize them and basically use it as a metaphor for how they view certain animals? leaning towards latter view just want clarification.

    Also, isn't it 10 animals sometimes? :p

    Oh, whats Hung Gar as well.
     
  11. Tom bayley

    Tom bayley Valued Member

    The animals are used as a metaphor for certain mechanics of power generation, certain methods of moving that suit those mechanics and certain applications that suit the mechanics and method of movement.

    Five animals is often the term given to the animal hand postures, tiger, dragon, snake,panther, crane.

    The are however many more animal metaphors used to different extents in different styles of kungfu.
     
    Simon likes this.
  12. Tom bayley

    Tom bayley Valued Member

    Again dude - the video is 41 minutes long. happy to discuss applications but could you quote a time-code so i know what i am looking at?
     
  13. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Sure, I'll do that when I get the chance :)
     
  14. Tom bayley

    Tom bayley Valued Member

  15. Rataca100

    Rataca100 Banned Banned

    Another question, is there a honour code should you need to fight somone? I know some traditional things teach a honour code or encourage one where as others dont. Or if there is one, does it go out of the window unless someone else will follow it?

    (trying to keep you busy with at least not totally useless questions. :p)
     
  16. Simon

    Simon Moved on Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    No.

    If you need to defend yourself the law allows you to. That goes for a pre-emptive strike all the way up to the very worst of outcomes.
     
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  17. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Okay Tom, here's three things for starters that I was curious about in that video:

    1. at 11:00 he shows a double palm strike. Where is he supposed to be targeting with the palm strikes and what is their intended effect? I presumed they were supposed to strike his opponent's head, but not only would his opponent's arm take most of the power out of them, he is not in range to hit the head anyway. Have I misread the intended effect?

    2. Just after the double palm strike mentioned above, he demonstrates an application that ends with striking his opponent's sternum with the ends of his fingers. To me, that looks like a recipe for broken fingers. Why would someone pit smaller bone structures against larger, stronger ones?

    3. at 21:40, he "claws the shoulders". What is the intended effect of this?

    Thanks :)
     
  18. Tom bayley

    Tom bayley Valued Member

    Please note as material is not from my club or linage I can only give my opinion and interpenetration of what I see. The way i would read the techniques shown is that they show general approaches rather than specific applications.

    11.00: Looking at the distancing of the double palm strike I would suggest that it could be applied as a palm strike to the muscles in the arm. This would steal a beat by attacking the opponents balance and trapping the arm. This could then be followed with either a shuffle step, strike to the head or a by griping and grappling the arm.

    As for the spear hand. Unless a correct regiment of conditioning is followed it is not generally helpful to strike anything other than a soft vulnerable target with a finger tip strike. With conditioning there are a number of vulnerable point strikes between he ribs over the heart at various angles. He could be going for one of those or possibly the solar plexus.

    Personally as I do not do conditioning I would aim the strike at the area of the throat/neck or eyes with the intention of forcing the opponent to shift their balance and so steal a beat to continue the attack.

    21.40: Oodles of targets and techniques applicable to clawing the shoulders. Loads of handy mussels to dig the fingers in, grab, divide and pull to break the balance. Or to strike or grip in to the collar bone.
     
    David Harrison likes this.
  19. Ben Gash CLF

    Ben Gash CLF Valued Member

    He's showing the techniques very expanded, not demonstrating sticking skill and also remember this is a public release video from the 80s, so there's also the possibility that this is the old Kung Fu equivalent of "gringo jitz".
    If you're used to working with your forearms in contact the palms will work, but the sequence would be more logical if the blocks were to the inside.
    The spearhand should be to the fossa above the sternal head, he's just showing a training safe version.
    The claws are attacking the subclavian nerve, not my favourite but quite common in 80s and 90s martial arts. There are much better grappling applications for the form movement (indeed for all 3).
     
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  20. Ben Gash CLF

    Ben Gash CLF Valued Member

    Hung Gar is probably the most famous of a group of systems from the Jiangmen and Futsan regions of Guangdong. These groups are often (somewhat inaccurately) described as Southern Shaolin or 5 families kung fu.
    Hung Gar was extensively restructured by Wong Fei Hung in the late 19th Century. Cantonese styles that trace their history before this (Choy Li Fut, Hung Fut, Hark Fu Mun) often express ten animals, and indeed Tom's line of Hung Gar has an "old Hung Gar" ten animals form.
     
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