Another Koan

Discussion in 'Off Topic Area' started by KSprenk, Sep 8, 2006.

  1. KSprenk

    KSprenk be

    This one had me a bit confused

    A monk asked Tozen when he was weighing some flax, "What is Buddha?"

    Tozen said, "This flax weighs three pounds."
  2. MadMonk108

    MadMonk108 JKD/Kali Instructor

    I always laugh when people post koan on-line and then go back and forth trying to debate the answers.


    Find a master and study.
  3. kneeyo

    kneeyo New Member

  4. jroe52

    jroe52 Valued Member

    agreed, the purpose of koens are for self realization, to study with a master and to find the answer yourself. buddhist debates are great for other purposes and discussing wordly issues using buddhist logic.

    however, i find martial arts planet proves a point often about zen buddhism: people find it cool to spit out koens and out perform someone, rather then for buddhist purposes.

    if you are confused, study the 4 noble truths and the 8 fold path. i have asked zen buddhists on this forum what they think about peace, about helping others, about the 8 fold path, and the 4 noble truths... often they do not give buddhist answers. often they do not know the 4 noble truths. however, they do no "poop/****" koens and defend themselves when you say it is irrelevent to your discussion.

    so, find it in yourself. often a koen may not make sense due to its context, we are not farmers, how can we know how a farmer feels? think of our energy, as our worlds energy... think of the buddha, as not a human. think of the buddha, as not a buddha. the buddha, can be many places at once, can be in many different forms and symbolize many different things. there are many different buddhas.

    hmm... hehe

    when i was reading about the 14 dalai lamas, i believe the 6th or 7th dalai lama was reincarnated as ashvokelia (i can't spell this off the top of my head yet), or the buddha of compassion. however, there already was a buddha of compassion on earth (as an adult and another as an infant).

    having two incarnations at once may seem incomprehendable, however an enlightened being, may seem incomprehendable to us, since we are not enlightened ourselves. enligthened beings are not restricted to a body, or the idea that we have 1 non-changing soul.

    but then again, this is what i think about when i read your koen, though i'm sure a master would have a different interpretation due to tradition, his purpose and many other factors.
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2006
  5. cloudz

    cloudz Valued Member


    I get the impression you guys are unhappy about something.. I find that funny.
    But you are in luck because the internet is a great place for free lessons!

    The "Way" is not difficult for someone without preferences.

    What makes the journey difficult is the intrinsic tendency of duelist minds to classify things, events, people as good and bad, desired and undesired, pleasant and unpleasant, and so on. Classification leads to comparison, comparison leads to dissatisfaction and hence results in unhappiness...

    When we completely accept "what IS" as a reflection of a perfect mechanism, we perceive the unity beyond all the dualities and hence preferences lose their meanings and their importance in our lives.

    Stop acting like they are so damn precious, they aren't. Now a dead cat on the other hand.

    Jroe, zen is a sect of buddhism, if it was the same thing and taught the same things in the same way it wouldn't be now would it?

    It's not a trick question..
  6. kwang gae

    kwang gae 광개 Sidekick Specialist

    Clearly the answer is "Iguana".
  7. MadMonk108

    MadMonk108 JKD/Kali Instructor

    The exchange of koan between two koan practitioners is a very respected practice...when it is done between two practitioners of Zen. Outsiders may see it as two people trying to outperform each other, but that is not the case.

    Where you referring to something in particular?

    Mount Sumeru.
  8. MadMonk108

    MadMonk108 JKD/Kali Instructor

    I am very unhappy.

    We could make soup.

    That would make me happy.
  9. MadMonk108

    MadMonk108 JKD/Kali Instructor

    With a side of duck sauce.
  10. cloudz

    cloudz Valued Member

    Looking for it in soup is like putting a devil on top of yourself.

    Master chef he say 'Put no head above your own'.
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2006
  11. MadMonk108

    MadMonk108 JKD/Kali Instructor soup then?
  12. aikiMac

    aikiMac aikido + boxing = very good Moderator Supporter

    No! And no soup for you!

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Oct 4, 2006
  13. jroe52

    jroe52 Valued Member

    i'm glad for the good replies:)

    i was worried people would hijack the thread, that is all... in a non-positive manner... like simply stating random koens for the purpose of showing off... rather then being a buddhist at heart.
  14. MadMonk108

    MadMonk108 JKD/Kali Instructor

    Haven't we already been through this?

    Do I have to explain it again?
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2006
  15. MadMonk108

    MadMonk108 JKD/Kali Instructor

    Can I come back in one year?
  16. cloudz

    cloudz Valued Member

    The soup of our choice will only make us thirsty, it would be better if we just shared our crackers.
  17. Angelus

    Angelus Waiting for summer :D

    Focus on the moment rather than let the moment focus on you...

    you have to realize that many koans also have illogical answers
  18. MadMonk108

    MadMonk108 JKD/Kali Instructor

    You callin' me a cracker, honky?
  19. cloudz

    cloudz Valued Member

    That's Mr. tonk to you, jack.
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2006
  20. cloudz

    cloudz Valued Member

    Yes... We can take this further even .. Being the moment. perhaps it is one thing to observe it, focus on it, another to be it.

    Whatever the moment may be.

    We know where we are and where it is when focusing on something, yes?
    Where do we go when not focusing on our moment.
    It is hard to imagine a moment focusing on us, does the moment have eyes to look at us.

    Left unentered though surely this moment will become us. Rather than us becoming it.

    If we do or think something, or something happens which makes us unhappy for example. Is it best to focus on it, perhaps focus on happiness instead. Or If you are unhappy become unhappiness. So who or what was doing unhappiness anyway that it found you in this way?

    We should neither name it happy or not happy. Neither unhappy or not unhappy.


    Tozen is being what he is doing, he is his moment. Empty of himself.
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2006

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