I always scratch my head in bewilderment and wonder why people think that their opinion of a person they never met before actually has any value. "Chris Kyle was a murderous psycho." No. Unless you knew Kyle personally, lived with him, trained with him, or served with him, then your opinion of him is as a person is about as valid as the turd I flushed away at around 2:35 yesterday afternoon. Besides, de mortuis nil nisi bonum and all that. I believed in my government's reasons for invading Iraq. And I still do because Iraqis came up to us and thanked us personally for saving them from Saddam's troops, who - by all first hand accounts I heard - were absolute monsters. The crap I saw and heard with my own eyes and ears was evidence enough. Most of the people I met in the years since then who opposed the war simply regurgitated their opinions from articles in pacifistic publications they read (a lot of which were written by people who had never been to Iraq). As for the right and wrong of what Chris Kyle did - it's war, man. Get over yourself. I think most people here would admit they would kill to protect their family and close friends; when you see somebody aiming an RPG at those same people, all thoughts of right and wrong go right out the damn window. You do what you need to, to protect them. And that's it.
None of which is CK's fault is it. His job is a sniper for the .gov who employs him to point his gun at long ranges to kill people of their choosing. Your hatred of the war right or wrong should not be put onto the soldiers fighting it. Now i have my own reasons for not liking what went down in our decades long war. I dont agree with ousting Saddam, I feel he could have been used to keep Iran at bay. He also kept a firm hand on his country. Now that he is gone and our boys are gone the morons in charge of Iraq now let the even worse Murderous animals known as Isis(Where did this ISIL name come from? Their name is ISIS) control a third of it. The mistake we made was not in going to war, but in choosing the wrong target. Saudi Arabia is largely responsible for funding terrorism in the middle east and we should have Destroyed them first. Being patriotic does not make me idiotic,i just dont want this group of service people treated like the returning vets from Vietnam. I dont know much about why we went to Vietnam other then the pretense of stopping the spread of communism. I dont like communism or progressivism so not sure why i would be against the war in Vietnam. My research in to that war suggest it was hampered by stupid tactics, and poor ROE. It was fought stupidly. Not to mention a Media hellbent on being against it.
Here's a story for you. One of the guys in our team got blown in half about 10-15 meters in front of me. Ask anyone and they'll tell you about how great a man he was. Write ups in the newspaper and everything, might even have something dedicated to him. Every year on the date he died people make Facebook posts in remembrance of him and how great he was. Truth: Dude started getting scared and started to not want to do his job. He was emotionally unstable and wasn't entirely reliable. He did stupid stuff all the time too. Dude was a complete jackass. If he had done some of the things he had done to another dude in the team, I would have beat his ass (or tried to). As a man, he was **** poor, and his family is crazy people too. I just don't talk about the guy to anyone other than my former team leader because he likes to be real about things instead of making things up in fantasy land where honor and dignity are given to anyone just for serving and dying in a combat zone. A lot of people just die for stupid reasons, and a lot of the time it's their own fault. I'm not saying anything about Kyle though, I'm just reiterating my original post in this thread with a personal experience. I can pull maybe 20 more out my butt, all the same thing. I stand by what I said. I really don't care for hero worship, and I don't see serving your country as being a hero either (I'm prior service, and was a sniper in the Marine Corps just to provide context here). Buy into everything if you want, but personal accounts are pretty worthless to me, especially in this context. Even military awards and recognitions tend to be full of it and are embellished. Real life sucks a lot harder for people who want to believe.
For whatever its worth from someone who has had nothing to do with Iraq Redcoat, your reasoning is pretty much where I stand on the issue. Obviously without the first hand experience parts. I forget which book it was but I think a group of soldiers in it summed up nicely with "Although no WMDs were found Saddam was a [plonker] who had it coming." The thing I'm personally saddest about with the Iraq war is that its poisoned the anti-war feeling so much when it comes to the ME that potentially legitimate actions (Libya, involvement with ISIS conflict etc) are guaranteed to face a "but Iraq" protest to drown under.
Whatever one thinks of war and those who wage it, belief creates justification, whereas reality determines truth. I have nothing against Kyle, he did what he was trained to do and more competently than most. I don't put him up on a pedestal, nor do I think it's my position to judge. He has already met his maker, so whatever we think, he's already had to face the jury.
I'll admit that while I believed in the mission, I think the method (particularly after the initial invasion) left a lot to be desired. We got certain things wrong, like in any war. Even Tony Blair was saying just yesterday it left a lot to be desired. Anecdote for you: Few years ago I was on my way to a memorial service for a very good friend (served together in Iraq, he stayed on after I was med-x'd and got killed in Afghan). It was a function organised by the regimental charity so while not in uniform I was wearing a tie and blazer with Para emblems. I ran into a Stop The War Coalition on the way to the venue. One of the unwashed bastards clocked the Para motifs and started waving a placard in my face and calling me every name under the sun. He was so angry that you would think I had raped his children. Except it would be hard to imagine he actually had any because he didn't look older than eighteen. After calling each other a few colourful names, I asked him had he or any of his close friends and family been personally involved in the war (either of them). When he replied "No," I asked him why he was so mad about the war and he said "Blair and those other politicians lied to us!" (obviously in more TOS-offebsive language). Then when I asked how he knew that, his reply was basically "I'm a student so I'm educated." Some fat cow with face piercings and dreadlocks (she was white ) jumped in with the name calling at that point, so I left before I got to ask what the lad was a student in (and before I nutted one of them). Probably General Studies or one or sociology Anyway, I think you're right that the mistakes we made in Iraq have contaminated the general feeling towards war in general. I certainly think a lot of people believe they are more knowledgeable than they actually are. I admit that I think less of anyone's opinion who wasn't actually there. Sorry if that includes you (or anyone else on this forum). I do still value your input, you're obviously a smart guy with an objective mindset, but there's always going to be this inevitable "But you weren't there" barrier in my head.
That's a pretty depressing story, really. However much anyone was against the Iraq war, to blame it on the servicemen and women who took part in it is utterly moronic. It's like saying unpleasant things to a turkey just because you don't like Christmas. When it comes to the details of what happened 'on the ground', no-one who wasn't there can ever truly know what it was like, as with any war. But on the bigger picture, such as why we went to war for example, I don't see that having been there gives anyone any kind of special insight that the rest of us don't have. Unless you were personally acquanited with the military top brass and the politicians who made the key decisions, of course. We might get some answers when the Chilcott Enquiry finally gets done, but even then I would imagine that a hell of a lot will be kept strictly under wraps.
Yeah mate, guess I was just saying why I might sometimes come across as a bit stubborn in my opinion. I too want the official inquiry to be over and done with because I'm hoping it will provide answers to some questions even I have.
Please don't judge all students by those people Redcoat, some of us actually are educated. The ones I've met at least. Then again they're almost all martial artists so I guess we don't draw the toffy crowd. I don't feel offended by you saying that barrier exists, it made sense that it would. If I can't get someone to understand what fighting in a sport is like god knows I'd struggle to explain war. Although conversely, much as I like you and value your insights, don't expect me not to call you blinkered by experience and biased sometimes
I will like to chime in a say: When is a movie plot ever accurate? When is a controversial book not embellished in order to generate sales?
It's an autobiography and he didn't embellish he lied - outright The estate continues to perpetuate said lies too, and the whole thing leaves a bad taste in the mouth By your logic "Bloodsport" is a real biographical film
The problem I have is that the lie isn't just a little white lie...It's a bit of a whopper. People don't do one offs like that, so I personally would treat most of Kyle's claims with suspicion. Guess his claims are good for propaganda though. Edit: Oh...Bloodsport. Well, it was real, Dux himself even says so. I'm sure it also says so on the opening titles of the film.
Sniping looters during Katrina Killing two men robbing him at a gas station and waiting for police who then called a special Pentagon number which got him off Personally finding WMD's The list goes on....
Ah. Well now I have to see if any of that is in the film. The impression I got from the trailer was it was simply a story about a soldier who ended up famous and the struggle to switch from soldier to civilian. Course it wouldn't be the first time a trailer's wrong.
Why would be lie about Ventura, god knows but according to Ventura, the owner of the bar, several other seals, the judge, the jury and a few other people (including the judge who through out the estates appeal) he did And Hannibal was quite clear he was talking about things other than CKs military life this is what he said
Ventura's been pretty negative about the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan...so I guess the trailer trash were pretty happy to hear that the pinko commie finally got taught a lesson by a true American. Makes the myth/legend even better!
