Aerobic versus Anaerobic Based Running?

Discussion in 'Health and Fitness' started by cxw, Sep 9, 2004.

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  1. cxw

    cxw Valued Member

    Could I get some guidance regarding running training? I'm training for Muay Thai and am training to fight. There's basically 2 ways I can do running:
    - Long, slow and steady. This will keep my aerobic fitness good, and help strengthen the ankles and legs.
    - Sprint/walk which is High Intensity Interval Training (HIIT). Which will definitely improve anaerobic fitness (which is crucial for the ring).

    On scrappers website (http://www.trainforstrength.com) the HIIT page states that "hitting the road is a waste of time - 'If you are conditioning to fight, skip the "road-work" and do High Intensity Interval Training'

    I was wondering if anybody has opinions on whether I should be just doing HIIT running, or doing some endurance running as well?
     
  2. YODA

    YODA The Woofing Admin Supporter

    I'm training to fight AND my health - so I do both :D

    2 interval sessions and 1 steady state session per week seems to work well. Although I don't limit these to running.
     
  3. binski20

    binski20 Valued Member

    Yoda's right. This is the way to do it. While the days of jogging 5 miles a day are gone and replaced with HIIT training, there is still some benefit to be had from the occasional long aerobic workout.
     
  4. David

    David Mostly AFK, these days

    You train to feel good - so you need ability in both areas.

    I jog aerobically 3-5 miles two or three times a week and mix in random spurts of anaerobic activity. Running sideways and backwards feature as well as basic changing of pace.

    Not sure about walking during training - even HIIT - I think that's a cop-out :D

    Rgds,
    David
     
  5. Knight_Errant

    Knight_Errant Banned Banned

    I do this routine which consists of 4 sets of 5 40-60 metre sprints. I read somewhere that resting or walking inbetween runs while you're training anaerobically in this manner actually makes it more effective.
    On top of that, I run tabata intervals- 10 seconds rest(i.e. jogging), 20 seconds work 6-8 times, and do the occasional (say once a week) steady state run. A lot of the time, I'll turn this into a roadwork session rather than a 'run' as such, i.e. running round the block doing callisthenic exercises every time I pass my house.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2004
  6. Radok

    Radok Love myself better than U

    If you are going to run 5 times a week, do 3 long runs of various lengths, and 2 speed work/anaerobic runs. Doing more than 3 speed work days is too taxing on the nevous system. I would suggest doing two 5 mile runs, one 8 mile run, and on the 2 speed work days run 400 and 800 meter sprints, work your way up to 15 400 sprints or 8 800 sprints.
     
  7. Colucci

    Colucci My buddies call me Chris.

    Why, why, and...why? :confused: A fighter has no physical need to be logging in such mileage. Any aerobic training would primarily be as active recovery. Even then, 45 minutes, or so, of easy walking would be sufficient. The high volume of long distance training you're suggesting would likely interfere with his weight-training and anaerobic endurance.

    Cxw, what's your current schedule in regards to Muay Thai and weight-training? If you're doing Muay Thai a few times each week, it's entirely possible that your current training (if it involves heavy bag rounds, skipping rope, and shadow boxing or sparring) is sufficiently building your anaerobic cardio and developing your base, plus it's "strengthening your ankles and legs" already, so that's not a problem.

    In general, I'd agree with Yoda's schedule. A max of 2 or 3 serious interval sessions each week, plus no more than 1 long-duration session. HIIT is a great type of program. You might also try HOC by Mike Mahler. www.mikemahler.com It's basically what KE described; jog a bit, do an exercise, jog some more, another set of exercises, jog more, another set. The biggest difference is that Mike recommends weight-training exercises instead of calisthenics (actually he's big on kettlebell work, but use what you've got).
     
  8. Sanitarium

    Sanitarium New Member

    I personally wouldn't worry about aerobic training interfering with weights unless you go running marathons, slow-twitch muscle grows much slower than fast-twitch muscle.

    5-8 miles does sound a bit too much though. I'd do 35 mins of cardio at a reasonable pace so you're moderately out of breath, then the distance you cover doesn't really matter, just the effort.
     
  9. Colucci

    Colucci My buddies call me Chris.

    It isn't about the muscles growing at different rates. When the body performs long-distance aerobic workouts, it can interfere with the various physiological processes involved in strength training. These guys can say it alot better than I can: www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=461325

    The key point is that athletes, especially those whose sport involves timed rounds with intermittent rest, will perform much better if they do not emphasize long-distance aerobic training.
     
  10. TkdWarrior

    TkdWarrior Valued Member

    Last edited: Sep 10, 2004
  11. Grey Area

    Grey Area New Member

    Hmmmm.. at the moment, the only exercise I do is long-duration low intensity stuff! Apparently this is the devil! Doesn't it increase capillary density, and allow your body to take up oxygen more efficiently? (international rowers perform many hours of training a day, and can take up more oxygen per minute than any other athletes)

    It looks like I'll have to start doing a bit of HIIT stuff before starting an MA at uni, though! Does something like one length hard, one length easy swimming for 30 mins sounds reasonable?
     
  12. Knight_Errant

    Knight_Errant Banned Banned

    I also do this bizarre shadowboxing routine- 10 seconds of rest, i.e. normal shadowboxing (May want to go a bit slower than normal if, like me, you have a habit of shadowboxing like a cross between a kangaroo and sonic the hedgehog on crack...) and 20 seconds of work, i.e. faststraight punches in a low horse stance. Repeat 6-8 times.
    Personally I'd be tempted to go for half lengths, sets of 5 swims with slow-swim-back rests with full recovery between sets.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2004
  13. Grey Area

    Grey Area New Member

    But that's harly any work at all!
     
  14. Knight_Errant

    Knight_Errant Banned Banned

    Last edited: Sep 10, 2004
  15. Knight_Errant

    Knight_Errant Banned Banned

  16. Sanitarium

    Sanitarium New Member

    I've read that and it's interesting, and I agree with most of it, but a few gripes with some bits;

    I've never heard of the reason for catabolic breakdown being that the body wants to weigh less. When you train for long-duration exercises then your body builds up slow-twitch fibers, which result in much leaner muscles than if you'd done exercises that target fast twitch fibers. Also, I was under the impression that the body eats up muscle after prolonged exercise because it needs energy, not because it wants to weigh less as an adaptation to stress. So marathon runners obviously look leaner than sprinters because they run extreme distances and generally don't do much, if any, weights. I mean there's a difference between 26 miles and 3.

    Basically what I'm trying to say is I still don't think moderate aerobic cardio would do much damage to a bodybuilder.

    The general concensus on being lean and muscular seems to be (among the bodybuilding communities I've seen) is a bulking and cutting phase, which makes more sense to me than trying to mix both weights and cardio, and expecting to build muscle and lose fat at the same time.

    A heart rate of 120bpm might burn a bit of fat, but if you're gonna do cardio, why not do it properly? And actually do your CV system good as well, with 30+ minute, fairly intense cardio, be it HIIT or traditional.
     
  17. Knight_Errant

    Knight_Errant Banned Banned

    At the same time, there seems to be this idea in certain circles that all you need to do to be cardiovascularly fit is go out and jog, though. It's wrong.
    As an example, when I was about 17, I used to run quite a lot and I was achieving quite respectable times- 45 minutes for 5 miles in heavy boots, 35 or so in training shoes. But when I got onto the track for our sports day, the times were as humiliating as ever- I still lagged quite a way behind in most of the races (that said, they didn't hold any marathons or distance running events).
     
  18. Grey Area

    Grey Area New Member

    Thanks for the links, KE.

    Your last post sums up why I want to start getting "in shape" now: I can swim/run/whatever for hours without stopping, but I've not been doing any high intensity work.
     
  19. Knight_Errant

    Knight_Errant Banned Banned

    On the other hand, you'll find it easier than if you'd done NO training. I think.
     
  20. Shortfuse

    Shortfuse King of Hearts

    i just run steadily incresing my speed for 30 min. as i get better i increase my speed more often. im doing this 3 times a week until i get used to this new scheduale in school, i think its ok to start. once i get used to running during the school year ill start running better, that is, using better methods
     
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