About Those Nazi Trump Ads...

Discussion in 'Off Topic Area' started by David Harrison, Jun 19, 2020.

  1. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    When I saw the red triangle, I thought it could be coincidence. When I read that 88 of these ads had been put out, I knew there had to be a Neo-Nazi involved in them at some level. Once I read that the first paragraph contained 14 words, any sense of plausible deniability went out of the window.

    For those who haven't seen them: Facebook let the Trump campaign run ads with inverted red triangle — an infamous Nazi symbol

    For those who don't know about Neo-Nazi dog whistles: 1488

    I doubt very much that Trump was behind this. I don't think he has the brains to pull-off a multi-pronged strategy like this.

    My suspicion is that his campaign deliberately placed ads that they knew would get pulled. It seems clear to me that they have chosen the culture war as the hill to die on during this campaign. They want to escalate the fight with Google and Facebook, and they will frame it as a war against "cancel culture".

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  2. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    I haven't read the advert bit in detail yet.

    But my thoughts about "cancel culture", it's just market forces, only right wingers could get upset about market forces, it's like being upset at the sky for being blue, or having an opinion about whether owls are real.
  3. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    I think it is more insidious than that.

    They need to invent an enemy. It's Big Brother stuff.

    Trump has failed on every front of his previous campaign pledges. People were always worried that he might start a war to get re-elected, and he wouldn't be the first. Looks like they have decided that a civil war will play better.

    And let's not forget the kinds of people he has working for him:

    Stephen Miller’s Affinity for White Nationalism Revealed in Leaked Emails
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  4. Monkey_Magic

    Monkey_Magic Well-Known Member

    I wonder how the polls show who's likely to win this election?
  5. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Fox News poll sees Trump's popularity drop to a new low

    Fox news had Bidan leading by 12 points, but it's very unstable at the moment.

    The two new books about trump by family and John Bolton will further erode his base too.

    But it's coming to a point, where all the big trump fans have bought into the lies for so long, that virtually nothing could shake their allegiance.

    Luckily the middle ground are moving to support Bidan, republicans are even funding superpacs to get him in, and save their party and country.
  6. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    If anyone hasn't seen this yet, this is what caused trump to go for president.

    Trump being mocked to his face by Obama.

  7. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    There must be a lot of people falling for sunk cost fallacy - they're invested so much in him that they don't feel able to drop their allegiance.
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  8. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    How about we give this a shave with Occam's razor?

    I can think of 3 possible explanations:

    1) Someone in Trump's media team decided to scroll way past all the actual insignia of US antifa groups in a Google image search in favour of a T-shirt design that is not affiliated or used by any actual antifa organisations in the US. By sheer coincidence they placed 88 of these ads that also had 14 words in the first paragraph, echoing common neo-nazi dog whistles.
    2) Someone in Trump's media team is as avid a researcher of historic and foreign antifa groups as SoMeDaTaPaCKeTS, and felt that a symbol unconnected to any antifa groups in the US was a good strong media message about antifa in the US. By sheer coincidence they placed 88 of these ads that also had 14 words in the first paragraph, echoing common neo-nazi dog whistles.
    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    3) Someone in Trump's media team deliberately used Nazi and neo-nazi symbols and dog whistles. Most likely in order to bait Facebook into the Trump campaign's culture war strategy.

    Which is the simplest explanation?

    I'm not saying that Trump himself had anything to do with it. I don't think he has the capacity to adhere to an ideology - he is a brattish heir who has had his narcissism reinforced and fed by others his whole life, and nothing more.
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  9. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    MOD NOTE!: In the spirit of open communication of mod actions. For people who were involved in this thread, you probably noticed that the Mod team decided to do a thread clean up (mass deletion) on this thread. The thread topic was taken over by a new member and the original thread topic got off track. Posts with an Antisemitic theme and agenda trolling were deleted and the member who posted them was banned. Normally, the Mod team is loathe to do such a major edit, but occasionally it is necessary. Links and articles spammed with an Anti-Semitic theme are against TOS. MAP will not be a platform for this.

    Leaving responses to what was deleted, with the original posts deleted, would make no sense. So, for the rest of you who posted. Please know there was absolutely nothing wrong with your posts! If any of you who had posts deleted have any questions or concerns, please feel free to PM any member of the mod team.

    I tried to leave posts that seemed to mostly deal with the original topic.

    This thread is now re-opened for the original topic. To keep it from being derailed again, please let's keep any discussion of the off topic derailment to PM and leave it off here ok? Back to the original discussion! :)
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2020
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  10. Mitlov

    Mitlov Shiny

    I want to add that for anyone suggesting that a red triangle actually IS an antifa symbol (it really isn't), here is a Change.org petition from three years ago by a bunch of conservatives asking the Anti-Defamation League to add antifa to the ADL's list of hate groups. I put this here NOT because I agree antifa is a "hate group" but simply because this is CONSERVATIVES listing antifa symbols from before the Trump campaign post at issue. The list of symbols includes the two flags (one red one black) and the three downward arrows, the two most common antifa symbols. It also includes several more tangentially connected with antifa. You'll note there's no red triangle. Because until this Trump campaign ad, nobody used the red triangle for antifa.


    Source from three years ago: Sign the Petition

    Edit: and here's a 2018 Snopes article about some other stuff, but the key fact here is that Snopes as well recognizes the two flags (one red one black) as the most common symbol associated with antifa, long before the current controversy ever occurred.

    Snopes: Does the Antifa Flag Resemble a Nazi Flag?
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2020
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  11. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    I find it utterly depressing that these conversations are still happening in the 21st Century.

    More and more, it seems as if all the hard-won lessons from the absolute horror of world war are being forgotten.
    Dead_pool likes this.
  12. Grond

    Grond Valued Member

    I know exactly what you mean, but try to turn your depression into alarm, because it's even worse than most realize. Those lessons aren't just being forgotten, they are being retconned to support future genocide. Movies like Black KKKlansman are really, really good at highlighting the past struggle, but the humor Spike Lee injected is still a far cry from the haunting I felt after watching Daniel Radcliffe play an undercover brother.

    My normally rational mind has a hard time grasping that not only is this movie a glimmer of modern reality, it's only a glimmer and actual reality is these guys are just waiting for an excuse to light things up, and a lot of them are military vets and in law enforcement.

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  13. Mitlov

    Mitlov Shiny

    At last night's presidential debate, Trump was directly asked to condemn white supremacists, and instead responded "Proud Boys...stand back and stand by." (The Proud Boys are a "western chauvinist" militia). Many, including the Proud Boys themselves apparently, took this as "stand by for further orders."

    Things are getting downright terrifying.
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  14. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

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  15. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    I just wanted to point out that the 3 Arrows symbol (bottom row, second from the right) is an anti authoritarian, prodemocracy symbol.

    Its the symbol of the IronFront who were pro democracy and both anti Nazi and anti Communist (also anti church/monarchism which was a sizeable politic force in 1930s germany).
    It was designed to cover up commie and nazi logos.

    If you dont like nazis or authoritarian leftism, the Iron Front is the symbol for you.
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  16. Mitlov

    Mitlov Shiny

    That's what it meant in 1930s Germany.

    In 2020 America, it has become associated with groups who deliberately seek out street fights with right-wing protesters and physical conflicts with law enforcement, and thus has more specific connotations than just a general "I support democracy." When I see it, I assume it means "I punch Proud Boys," not "I donate to the ACLU," you know? I'm not saying these leftist folks who fought in the street are mostly equivalent to Neo-Nazis--they're not--but they're not representative of everyone who supports democracy through normal channels either.


    Image source: What Do The Antifa Symbols Mean? The Flags Often Feature Three Arrows
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  17. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    To be fair it meant "I support democracy by punching nazis" in the 1930s too but it does differ from the authoritarian leftists.

    Personally I'd like to see APAP (all power to all power) used more by peaceful prodemocracy folks but I dont know how peaceful protestors can stand against violence without the threat of instability behind them (social, economic etc). MLK was a safe alternative to the violent black empowerment parties and MLK held the threat of economic instability of black people not engaging with white society (not taking buses etc).
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  18. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    *All power to all people
  19. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    To be fair, MLK was gunned down, and many people suspect the police were complicit in his murder.

    Assassination of Martin Luther King Jr. - Wikipedia

    Interestingly Hitler used the threat of Anti nazi violence during his election, and now trump is doing the same, despite the evidence showing right wing violence being a far far bigger problem.

    Anti-fascists linked to zero murders in the US in 25 years

    It's definitely a tricky situation, and whilst you have a white supremacists in the white house it will keep on growing, let's hope the leadership problem changes soon, otherwise you may end up having to take sides.
  20. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    But, conversely....

    "People like Coldplay and voted for the Nazis. You can't trust people, Jeremy."


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