A traditional martial artist’s perspective on competitions

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by Dunc, Mar 11, 2018.

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  1. Dunc

    Dunc Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    This weekend I competed in a BJJ tournament for the 1st time and as someone who’s spent most of my life as a traditional martial artist I thought it may be interesting to share what I learned

    My BJJ professors suggested that a) it’d be a good experience to develop my BJJ and b) it was as close to a real fight as you can come in a martial arts context

    I’ve not taken part in competitive sports for about 20 years, but I thought “What the hell let’s give it a go and see what happens”

    Probably this is my mid-life crisis kicking in....


    First and foremost I loved the experience, I learnt a lot about myself, it certainly improved my BJJ and I will do it again

    I didn’t find it particularly stressful or scary and, for me, it didn’t seem any more like a real fight than a particularly tough roll in the academy or having someone really go for it in TMA. So I’m not sure that I buy the “it’s the closest you can get to a fight” argument

    I’d say that overall my TMA experience counted against me in the context of a BJJ competition. I do BJJ to develop my ground skills, so I found the standing part of the contest to be quite hard for 2 reasons:
    1. I was constantly stopping myself exploiting opportunities that would be appropriate in a TMA context and
    2. Many of the BJJ standing postures, take downs, guard pulls etc are not done in TMA so I wasn’t particularly well prepared to deal with them
    These factors acted as quite a hinderance when standing I think


    For me the real value of competing was the opportunity to roll with people from very different “lineages” who used unfamiliar approaches and techniques. I found that my TMA background helped me deal with the unfamiliar/unexpected attacks, but competing showed me that I need to really focus on expanding my experience

    Competing made it clear to me that TMA do not provide you with a) sufficient opportunity to practice dealing with attacks / situations outside of their curriculum and b) the practical experience to either control the fight or turn the situation around when things are going pear shaped

    These I think are the great failings of TMA in terms of practical application...

    The competition also acted as a great incentive for me to train harder and improve my fitness which was another plus
     
    Dunc, Mar 11, 2018
    #1
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  2. Knee Rider

    Knee Rider Valued Member Supporter

    Well, done Dunc!

    Accurate conclusions/observations that you have drawn there too in my opinion.
     
    Knee Rider, Mar 11, 2018
    #2
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  3. Unreal Combat

    Unreal Combat Valued Member

    Pretty much why you need to properly spar and pressure test what you learn or teach. Very valuable lessons to be learned there for sure.

    Kudos for your honesty and ability to self reflect on what you learned from the experience.
     
    Unreal Combat, Mar 11, 2018
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  4. Dunc

    Dunc Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    Thanks
    I think the point I’m making slightly different from the need to spar or pressure test, which can be done in TMA
     
    Dunc, Mar 11, 2018
    #4
  5. Knee Rider

    Knee Rider Valued Member Supporter

    Sparring and pressure testing are really the only way to get comfortable with both things you mentioned though...
     
    Knee Rider, Mar 11, 2018
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  6. Dunc

    Dunc Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    Yup agree
    A key difference, for me, is that competing allows you to spar / pressure test with folk who move differently from the people that you regularly spar with
     
    Dunc, Mar 11, 2018
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  7. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Yeah BJJ comps aren't even close to fights. Honestly neither is MMA. An actual fight in the street is far easier in many regards. Do fitting MMA doesn't really give you an accurate reading.
     
    Pretty In Pink, Mar 11, 2018
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  8. Knee Rider

    Knee Rider Valued Member Supporter

    It i
    It is one way depending on what/where you compete. Cross training/open mats is another.

    Have you ever rolled with a proper wrestling based submission wrestler (as opposed to a no-gi jits guy or an MMA exponent with some sub grappling)? Very interesting experience from a pure jitz experience base.
     
    Knee Rider, Mar 11, 2018
    #8
  9. Dunc

    Dunc Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    No I haven’t and I’ve resolved that going forwards I will give more focus on getting exposed to as broad a range of styles as possible
     
    Dunc, Mar 11, 2018
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  10. Knee Rider

    Knee Rider Valued Member Supporter

    Good stuff!

    Ps - I have. It was horrific. It's in my log somewhere from a few years ago. I was crushed to bits.
     
    Knee Rider, Mar 11, 2018
    #10
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  11. VoidKarateka

    VoidKarateka Valued Member

    These sorts of posts are why I love this forum!

    Have you been inspired to compete again? Will your expereinces cross over into your TMA training going forward?
     
    VoidKarateka, Mar 12, 2018
    #11
  12. Dunc

    Dunc Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    Hi

    Yes I'll probably compete at the larger events in London, it took quite a toll on my body so at my age I need to pace myself
    I enjoyed it and performed better than I expected, but feel that I learnt a lot so next time I'm going for gold :)

    I still believe that there's a (much discussed on MAP) trade off in terms of cross over....

    However, I think need to find a new balance in my TMA training so we can a) practice working against (skilled) non-TMA attacks that are appropriate for SD situations, and b) get better at being able to take ownership of the fight

    I also don't want to create an instinct that is "competitive techniques" rather than TMA-techniques should the proverbial hit the fan
    I need to spend time experimenting with ways to achieve this - watch this space

    I feel that there's quite a lot of wisdom in the saying "Master Judo first then master TJJ"
     
    Dunc, Mar 12, 2018
    #12
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  13. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    It's really easy in TMA for the hierarchical nature of classes, to interference with how "honest" in class sparring is, it happens in Gi BJJ too, so competitions tend to be a good way to get a reality check, within the confines of the rules obviously.

    How did you manage with the stand up portion of the match?

    The rate limiting factor is often grip fighting, and ability in pulling guard/countering the guard pull, I found judo practise with tomoe nage entries/counters had a lot of cross over.
     
    Dead_pool, Mar 12, 2018
    #13
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  14. Dunc

    Dunc Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    The guard pulls were fine as that’s stable BJJ stuff

    In the academy my sparring partners tend to do more judo style stand up which is very similar to TMA and relatively easy to adapt to

    I screwed up in the final because my opponent used a low stance, head forward, legs back, waving his arms around and I kept thinking of the striking opportunities which put me on the defensive

    I should have countered his take down into guard, but instinctively set up a groin kick situation which wasn’t a good idea and he passed my guard as a result
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2018
    Dunc, Mar 12, 2018
    #14
  15. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Could you use that as a butterfly hook/sumo gaeshi style guard sweep?

    If theyre zombie/stiff arming you, there's some great sacrifice throws/guard pulls you can do once you've dominated the grip fight.

    Ps the two hands on one lapel shake and move backwards works really well against that hips Back stiff arm posture.


    Edit

    This kinda stuff

    How to Throw Defensive, Stiff-Arming, Bent-Over Opponents - Grapplearts
     
    Dead_pool, Mar 12, 2018
    #15
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  16. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    The great thing with bjj is that you can normally attend any open mat to spar with different schools and be welcomed with open arms, I've only found this true or a few tcma schools

    A grappling comp isn't the same as a fight or a hard roll it depends on whose competing I was always careful not to hurt my opponent when competing treating it like a roll in class, others in comps have a different mindset it changes from protecting your partner to if he doesn't tap or the red stop it he gets hurt and that kind of comp is different from a roll In class
     
    icefield, Mar 12, 2018
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  17. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    When I roll with guys in bjj they say the top pressure I have is something they have never felt, even with higher belts and guys with judo or wrestling back grounds, I'm actually being nice but it comes from years of no gi work working with free style guys, it's a different feel and way of rolling
     
    icefield, Mar 12, 2018
    #17
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  18. Morik

    Morik Well-Known Member Supporter MAP 2017 Gold Award

    One of the things I had going for me when I was doing BJJ was my top pressure. With my weight (~280 lb), previous wrestling experience (2-3 years in high school, though I don't really remember much, I think it still helps. This was not sub-wrestling, just pin-to-win wrestling), and the fact I find riding on one of my hip bones to be pretty comfortable for extended periods of time, I've been told I have really strong top pressure.
    Of course, I still got beat by most people as my offense isn't that good (my control is better than my attacks, I think). I'd keep control but not be able to get any attacks off, until I run out of energy or make a mistake & they take control, and then their attacks do work out.

    Right before I stopped training BJJ I had gotten to the point where I could beat maybe half the white belts when rolling. (I had trained for maybe 4 months.)

    I haven't really experienced rolling with a wrestler. I don't know of much training for wrestling in my area, though I haven't really looked around. Tons of gi & no-gi BJJ, but wrestling seems a bit sparse.
     
    Morik, Mar 12, 2018
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  19. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    I remember going to an SFUK open mat one time (as a BJJ guy) and grappling with a wrestler from Atherton club (IIRC). I was trying to be playful and was using a fairly loose open guard. He knelt on my shin, cranked on my foot and damn near broke my tibia. Wrestlers are a breed apart. :)
     
    Smitfire, Mar 12, 2018
    #19
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  20. Giovanni

    Giovanni Well-Known Member Supporter

    terrific post. kudos for sharing your experience.
     
    Giovanni, Mar 12, 2018
    #20
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