I was going to post this in the Bad videos thread but had a thought instead. We discuss how many people change the kata or do henka for different reasons, but these "new and improved" versions generally have one thing in common, a lack of understanding the purpose of the kata and why things were passed down the way they were. Here is a video from Akban, a group that has put a lot of material out but usually with some strange twist on it. At first glance, they look good, you see a more aggressive almost MMA style along with the traditional arts being demonstrated. However, just like many other groups who post videos out there, you see the same mistakes in kamae, posture, angling, and lack of realism. I got through the first 25 minutes of this video and was hit with a bombshell. The head instructor got up to explain after a teacher said he didn't know why the choreography had been changed and showed his understanding of the traditional kata. The explanation was that the head of the organization did not know why the original kata had you coming into a kick(after stating that you could move in or gain distance, ignoring the option of sinking or moving outside it we should note), and that he thought it was dangerous to move in closer while leaving your head exposed. This kind of movement he goes on, is very common and basic to Kukishinden ryu. He was uncomfortable with leaving himself open(rightfully so) and decided to depart from tradition and make up his own modern interpretation. Here is the video: [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fsbgjdNiUg"]5th AKBAN Ninjutsu Colloquium - October 2014 - YouTube[/ame] The biggest problem up to the 27 or so minute mark in the video is that nobody demonstrates an understanding or ability to demonstrate Kukishin principles, in particular Kuki Sabaki. Of all the ryu in the Takamatsuden, this one is the most advanced in form of breadth and conceptualization, strategy, and principles of combat. The most important aspect of this school is to appear far when near and near when far and to concurrently move in a way that makes the next attack hard to do. What do we mean by this? By changing the height of your stance, you change your distance to the enemy though the apparent distance might not change. This is Kukishin 101 and is found in all of its techniques. As you sink, you can move your feet closer to or further from your opponent, but his perception will be tricked by your height, angle, and position. If you watch their exchanges, you will see every group moving back more or less in a straight line. This is fine for a beginner, but as you begin to learn the real aspects of this ryu, you will know that you must move at particular angles. If you evade like they demonstrate, the opponent will be able to maintain his attacking rhythm(something they go a great deal into in the video) and make it harder to defend. You would eventually be run over/down by the aggression and force of his attack, even if you were able to somewhat deflect or counterstrike his limbs. Watching their striking as well, it is coming in a way that is easily seen and avoided by the attacker, instead of from a hard to see angle and is a further example where they differ from Kukishin methodology. Basically, they are showing running away while trying to forestall the aggressor but Kukishin ryu is the 9 DEMON school, and demons don't run away like frightened schoolgirls. They move out of the way, luring the opponent in as they pick apart their attackers weapons(the defanging of the snake found in other martial arts). The attacker should not be able to just steamroll ahead, but should have to be constantly shifting around chasing the proponent who moves in a way that makes him feel like he's on a merry go round. So by the finally part of the kata where the tori goes on the offensive, there should be a circular or hooking path that you could draw from the beginning position to the end. It should not be a linear line in one basic direction, but look like a bloodhound trail chasing an escaped convict through the woods. The reason for the drawn out choreography found in the kata is to make sure the practitioner gets a lot of practice using the correct sabaki(footwork) and builds strong legs that can take the height changing by doing it over and over in practice. They also get to work on aiming the counterstrikes to the correct pressure points(kyusho) and as an uke, get used to being counterstruck when they try to attack. This conditioning is all lost when you practice incorrectly. But we digress. Going back to why I started this thread, he stated that being close to the attacker with your hands down and your faced exposed makes no sense, and he's right. However, this is not what Kukishin ryu teaches. Even when you are closer to the attacker and doing the daken strikes to the opponent's limbs(be they arms or legs), you are guarded with your other hand and your position is such that your face appears close enough to attack but in reality is just out of reach due to your sinking and angling. Were you to do the same choreography minus the correct angling and sinking, it would be dangerous and inadvisable from a martial standpoint. So, unless you practice and train correctly, you create issues that shouldn't be there in the first place. By being at the correct distance, height, angle, and being assisted by the way you counterstrike(the angle of strike, fist used, and way it penetrates slightly off balances the attacker and helps create a pause before the next attack), you create the time lag between their strikes that messes with their rhythm. They should always be a half beat behind or trying to rush to catch up. Without these aspects in your practice, you are not protecting the ryu and you are not learning something that is useful and pragmatic, but you are doing yourself or your students a disservice by creating your own version of things based on your misunderstanding. Watching videos like this are informative and more the reason why you should learn DEEPLY and CORRECTLY, no matter who your teacher is. Learning from a master who knows the system is just a start, just getting your foot in the door. How far you go in your training is dependent on you understanding the reason things are done the way they are before you move on or away from your teacher, and making sure you get questions cleared up correctly before you begin to create something new based on your own shortcomings.
I have watched nearly every video they have. It seams with all there kata videos they move in a straight line. Are there any videos of a half decent Kukkishinden ryu kata?
Ok i found this video. [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3G0Pwm4totQ"]Masaaki Hatsumi - Kukishinden Ryu Yoroi and Hanbo - YouTube[/ame] I assume its quality. I notice that in some of the kata, they do indeed move in the hooking shape you mention. However i notice that some of them are linear most notably when evading and blocking attacks they move back ward then when they attack they move in the arc. So is the whole kata supposed to be a arc/circle or only some points? As it looks like the are defending in a line then attacking in a circle.
Oh no.:Alien: Their videos are not a good representation of the ryu and leave a lot to be desired. In general you will not find that videos are a good way to learn. Are they better than nothing? In some cases yes, in others worse. Caveat emptor. It is a good demonstration of some of the kata from a basic standpoint. However, due to the size of the dojo, camera angle, and the fact that some of these details are not for beginners, you will not see Kuki sabaki in detail. It is something that you must learn from your teacher when the time comes. As a beginner, you may not be exposed to it at all. When retreating, you move offline at angles, but when you look at the whole story(left punch, right punch, left kick, right kick, right punch, etc), you will see that the path traveled is not along the original line of attack but should have diverged quite widely. For example, if you move off at a 45 degree angle twice, you should be close to 90 degrees to the original line. If you are back on the original line and facing the same direction you were originally, you really haven't changed their attacking momentum or target sight very much. As the original video was a "colloquium" being taught by black belt instructors, you would have expected to see a more detailed and correct demonstration but even where the choreography wasn't changed by some teachers, they still demonstrated the same kind of movement as everyone else.
A note on syncopation: The beat used in Kuki Shinden ryu is not a simple, one two three beat. As can be seen even on the video Kframe posted, there are many counters used in this ryu that happen on the half beat. The basic beginner kata may have the uke attacking simply and on a line, but when you get into the advanced concepts of the ryu, the attacks won't be able to come as fast and straight due to the nature of the defense and counterstrikes, so each attack will get more delayed. Gyokko ryu uses a kind of movement that sucks the opponent in, so their beat is like stretching the notes. Koto ryu is much more staccato. Shinden Fudo ryu is like a heartbeat, more natural. Togakure has no beat, because it should be invisible. It is like overload, with a lot happening at once and then the blinding powder. Takagi's beat is more like noh or kabuki in my mind. Very Japanese.
Almost as if a video in response to this thread: [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IElIYOkIdmo[/ame] Edit: Nah it isn't. They appear to have a few vids attempting to explain the same sort of things.
Wow. What a convoluted arm-hanging mess! I didn't spot much syncopation on the go either. He tried to pay lip-service to broken rhythm at the start, but syncopated rhythms are... rhythmic... and he didn't do a good job of demonstrating them. [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTQ1A7YT1pQ"]How Music Works: Rhythm - Accent & Syncopation - YouTube[/ame]
Indeedy. I am not sure what is going on regarding his talk of syncopation. It seems to be missing from the demo. And "hear" it? What is he listening to? Does he mean feel it or dictate it or something similar? And apart from that they rely on speed and tension to complete the techniques, which is again, probably the reason for any modifications (i.e. they cannot perform the original properly so assume it needs changing)
There is rhythm in Kukishin ryu. Just think, they got some of their ideas from their experience as pirates on ships. However, the syncopation they are droning on about has nothing to do with it.
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rZtCnBpr60"]Kukishinden ryu syncope - excerpt from 3rd colloquium - YouTube[/ame] I guess if you move straight back and do jodan uke where your arm is parallel and you don't sink, this kind of rhythm could occur. Still though, it seems like a lot of wasted time and intellectualization when it is simpler to just do the techniques right...
At least he showed somewhat better off-beat timing on the suiyoku strike. The kata in general was not well done though really...and no ending shown. The jodanuke is not great and has no effect on the uke. The angles and distancing all looked off from the view given. Lots of talking and trying to explain details that are a) over thinking b) mostly wrong c) miss the really important aspects. Almost as if he is trying to understand and expain it to himself?
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hI8WEz8YrBY"]Ninja Sensei Rob Renner- Bujinkan Ninjutsu is a Combat Martial Art - YouTube[/ame] More pearls of wisdom. I love at the 2 minute mark where he tries to justify poor technique by explaining it away by using armor as an excuse. If you don't know an art, don't make up stuff to make up for it. Learn it correctly and save all the time and effort on the make believe.
I know I've said this before on videos you posted. But OH MY LORD... Where do they breed these clowns?
As a person who knows a little bit about complicated martial arts (American Kenpo Karate) I found the op video thread absurdly boreing, frankly I wouldnt give a red cent to take that martial art. Wheres the real need for all the junk they discussed in that video, perhaps im dumb.
A little bit of knowledge... is enough to fool those with even less. People actually seek out this instruction.
Not just any bujinkan (bujinkan can also mean bujinkan brian or rvd's bujinkan circle), BUJINKAN JAPAN. This guy can't be in a position to teach without going to and getting approval from the Japan hombu. Of course. When one can feel oh-so-deadly without putting in a lot of effort (just money), why wouldn't they? They don't have to rely on these skills. No big deal for them; Nobunaga ain't attacking them next month either.
Who seeks him out or allows him to teach is not really relevant to the thread. The point is he's wrong, and using poor logic to defend his being wrong. Omote gyaku works because it works. The other guy doesn't have to be in armor, you just need to know how to apply it. The same technique is found in many martial arts historically and modern day arts, not just in Japan. If the technique only worked because of armor, it wouldn't be so common. Bad position is bad position, armor or not. People who can't do a technique correctly or weren't ever taught it beyond a beginner level shouldn't be teaching or making things up to fill in their lack of knowledge and/or ability. The videos are just an example of this phenomena in action.
