Exactly! It all depends upon what your goals for training are. Herein lies my personal problem with the majority of on-line arguments over martial arts. A great many people equate martial arts with ring fighting. If that is what someone enjoys, then by all means they should go out and train to be a better ring fighter. There are a number of arts and training practices that are geared toward that result. However, that is only a single result, not the be all, end all that many martial artists paint it to be. A great many people talk endlessly about "no rules environments" and "street effectiveness", but they have no actual experience other than what they've been told, so they equate ring fighting with actual "fight to live" fighting, which are two very different things. Many will pummel a person with their ideas and ideology as if it was the only truth, and it does get old. Here's a real life example of what I'm trying to say, from my own experience ... There was a karate dojo in the same strip mall as the pool hall that I and some friends would frequent in the late 70's. One of the guys from there liked to come over and tell us about his black belt (I've no idea what level, I've killed a lot of brain cells since then!) and his latest tournament wins, and how he was a killing machine. On one particular night I was more sarcastic than usual, and he threatened me repeatedly until I finally got fed up and agreed to go outside with him. At that point I had zero formal martial arts training. Outside, he got himself ready and squared off with me. I looked over his shoulder and shouted very loudly "NO, DON'T". When he glanced over his shoulder to see what I was shouting about, I kicked him between the legs and threw him through a plate glass store window. I've no idea what happened to him (I left quick before the police showed up) as we never saw him at the pool hall again, but I'd say all of his fight training availed him nothing in that scenario. Doesn't mean his training wasn't practical or worthwhile, just that it didn't help him in that particular instance. The reality is that it's pretty hard to say definitively what sort of training would have helped him there (other than training to keep his mouth shut). So, it all depends on what you're training to achieve, and the vast majority of martial artists are not training to achieve street mastery, although a great many of them like to think they are.