A couple quick Vids on Entries

Discussion in 'Jeet Kune Do' started by JKDbyNik, Aug 27, 2012.

  1. JKDbyNik

    JKDbyNik Valued Member

    Since it's so quiet in here....I thought I would share a couple videos that I dd after class for some people who were confused about what "Entries" and Follow up's to Split Entries are. No bid deal..just trying to get some conversation going.

    http://youtu.be/iql22rEOnmY (Part 1)

    http://youtu.be/OVlVc3lx36I (Part 2)
     
  2. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    For a class of students confused about entires and split entries that is a nice series of explanations.
    Easy to watch and easy to pause and disect each movement.

    Videos are well lit and the sound is at a good level.

    As someone who teaches this I like the way you don't get caught up in the "this way is best" arguement. Once the jab is avoided you can add whatever technique you like from your own style.

    Nice work.
     
  3. JKDbyNik

    JKDbyNik Valued Member

    Thanks Simon! I appreciate the feedback. I don't get involved with the "this way/that way" argument. It defeats the purpose of JKD which is individuality. I can tell you what has worked for ME, then help you find what works for YOU...but ultimately teaching isn't about me...it's about the student.
     
  4. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    I prefer to use my own attack to set up my entry. This way, I won't fall into my opponent's trap, I can attack and enter anytime I want to. There are just too many unknow to respond to your opponent's attack. Why not just force your opponent to respond to you instead? This way your opponent's respond to your attack will be under your prediction.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2012
  5. JKDbyNik

    JKDbyNik Valued Member

    Yes I agree that majority of the time it is better to be more proactive than reactive. However, we don't always have the luxury of seeing an attack coming which forces us to be reactive for a moment. Plus, the videos are just showing the way the entries and follow ups are traditionally taught in JKD. Also keep in mind that in a "direct" entry, the initial attack (shovel hook kick, eye jab, groin kick, jeet tek etc" IS the entry. You can't attack then enter...you enter to attack. Unless you are referring to "entering into xyz range" like close quarter. That is not the same as a bridge or entry, that is simply transitioning into a range, and would still require an "entry" to do so.
     
  6. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    I like the side door and front door concept. When you are in your opponent's side door, to use his leading arm to jam his back arm will give you great advantage.

    The "entering strategy" is very important in all MA systems. We just can't emphasize enough.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2012
  7. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Nice vids Nik! Good to see another member of my JKD line on MAP too!
     
  8. Rebel Wado

    Rebel Wado Valued Member

    double post oops
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2012
  9. Rebel Wado

    Rebel Wado Valued Member

    JKDbyNik, thanks for sharing the videos. The videos were well made and explained well.

    On the other hand, I personally didn't like the particular use of angles for the entries as they tended to leave the centerline and groin open for attack, IMHO. I prefer sharper angles and more "bladed" profile to the opponent... even when using the same 45 degree footwork. On the outside entry you got groin open to spinning back kick, on the split entry open to the front leg back heel hook to the groin, on the inside entry open to the front kick to the groin. I can make the same analogy with low line knife attack.

    Just my opinion.

    Thanks again.

    Edit: Not to hijack your thread, but this is more like the angles I prefer. Skip to about a third into the video. The difference is in the details of the footwork and positioning, IMHO:

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lo-0RTe2zvw"]Dan_Inosanto_Panantukan_part_1.flv - YouTube[/ame]
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2012
  10. JKDbyNik

    JKDbyNik Valued Member

    Thanks Rebel! You're not hijacking anything my friend...I put em up just to get some conversation going. We all have our preferences...I never said these are the only way or anything...just simply demonstrating some basic entries as taught in the curriculum.

    As for your preference...just keep in mind that you're referring to a position in which you are prepared to fight, which is often not the case. Sometimes you will have to come out of a natural stance which won't allow for the sharp angle you prefer. Also keep in mind in "street" use, you will not encounter spinning heel kicks, or whatever. And if someone is making an attack with the jab, rear hand straight, or rear overhand, they aren't in position to also attack low line. If you are "intercepting" with the bui gi/eye jab while stepping offline and following up with a forward pressure attack, there is very little opportunity for them to to spinning heel kicks, or groin kicking. Just my opinion.

    But thank you for the post...again, I just put these up to start some conversation.
     
  11. HarryF

    HarryF Malued Vember

    Nik, great videos, clearly demonstrated, well lit, in focus, good sound quality (can tell what you're saying). Also, I liked how you repeated the three part indirect entry goal and the four part method for achieving that goal enough times so you that even I can remember them. Nice!

    These entries are contained in the FMA syllabus I teach, and, as you say, the footwork angle employed depends on the relative starting configuration and range, and the desired configuration and range after the entry.

    The second video is great too, as I think that variations and options in the framework of a drill are where some of the best learning occurs. My instructor calls them "OSMs" which are "oh DEAR" moments, it is the moment where you have to react to something unexpected and, hopefully, improve your ability to 'flow'. Doing this in a drill (rather than sparring) gives some level of certainty to what is supposed to be happening, and reduces the penalties for getting it wrong!

    Also, the third option (pak da) shows two in one - split entry to separation, THEN pak da to combination. So, pak da can be done from the start if the fight is 'on' and the guy has that structure up ready for you to pak it... Is option four pak da to lop sau da?

    Cheers, Harry
     
  12. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    It's difficult to put up your personal clip and start any deep level discussion. There is no need to discuss if someone shares the same point of view as the clip owner. Any different opinions can be considered as disrespect to the clip owner, which may discoursge people from sharring their clips.
     
  13. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    I don't agree.

    As someone who has several clips on MAP, I have found there to be a great deal of respect and any criticism to be taken very well.

    I personally think it is a shame more people don't post clips of themselves.
     
  14. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    At 9.05 of the 1st clip, it seems to me that if you punch up under your opponent's arm, all your opponent needs to do is to drop his punching arm to block your punch. This also happen in this clip at 7.16. His left hand pull his opponent's left arm down, at the sametime his right upper cut comes under his opponent's left arm. His opponent's dropping left arm can jam his right upper cut. Why did he want to do that for?

    Old MA saying said, "It's better to get inside than to get outside. It's better to get on top then to get below." The reason is simple. When your arms are inside of your opponent's arms, you have all his body open for you. When you arms are on top of your opponent's arms, you will have body weight advantage.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lo-0RTe2zvw"]Dan_Inosanto_Panantukan_part_1.flv - YouTube[/ame]
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2012
  15. Moosey

    Moosey invariably, a moose Supporter

    Interesting videos. Nice to see the similarities with stuff I've learned in karate. The one thing I would question would be in the inside entry, when you step out to your right with his jab by your left ear, you reach across your own centre line with your right hand to parry the jab. It seems to me that this ties up both your hands when just holding your left arm by your head would parry the punch equally effectively, but leave you with your right hand to strike with. Is there any advantage to parrying with your right hand then left, rather than just the left?
     
  16. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    There is a specific entry to counter that possibility, and even if the arm does drop there are several Dumog positions tht instantly counter the counter. For me I draw a reaction prior to the uppercut making it almost a "lop Sao" variant
     
  17. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    Of course you can counter the counter. IMO, It's better not to let your opponent to have a chance to counter so you don't have to counter his counter. It's better to prevent a problem from happening instead of to wait for the problem to happen and then fix it. This is why we will need to "plan" ahead of the time.

    It's better to put your opponent's arm at a temporary spot that will not be in your striking path so his arm won't be able to interrupt your next move. For example, if you want to punch at your opponent's head, you will guide his leading arm down first. This way when you release his arm and punch his head, his arm won't be able to move back fast enough to block your head punch.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2012
  18. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Actually if you look again the arm is "wrenched" and controlled for the uppercut . Guro Dan pulls it down as he hits up so no, the counter as you see it is not viable
     
  19. HarryF

    HarryF Malued Vember

    So how do you draw the reaction?

    I have got this in sparring/pressure testing from several positions - outside entry with or without (gentle) elbows, arm drag, vertical outside gunting, cross hand cover (also called the reverse split entry), clinch to two on one (russian tie) to upper cut. All have different ways of controlling the arm so you get the hit in.

    In the end, if it doesn't score, so what? Just keep going...
     
  20. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    If it's an elbow break, that will be a good move. If the upper cut intends to hit his opponent's chin, it may not be good.

    Why not just upper cut "above" his opponent's arm instead? This way, his opponent's arm won't be in his striking path. Why make a simple punch so complicate?
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2012

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