a cop in need of advise.

gud day sirs,
if i could ask this question first...is there a fellow officer here?
or is there a martial art practitioner who has expirienced apprehending someone?

i need to ask this question so i could easily related to an answer.

we got a project in DILG about training in martial arts. With different art in mind we need 5. "Need to suggest 5 useful arts in our line of duty.
If i could ask for your advise and experience on w/c 5.

 

Hi.

I am not a cop but my FMA instructor trains gov't orgs like Philippine Marines, US Marines (during balikatan exercises) and PNP- Special Action Force. His name is Mandala Maginoo Rommel Tortal of Pekiti-Tirsia Kali Fighting System. He is the head instructor of the Edged-Impact Weapons Tactical Combat training program of the Philippine Marines and PNP-Special Action Force. PM me if you want more info. Thanks.

 

I'm neither, so I hope you don't mind my contribution.

1. Filipino Martial Arts - pro: realistic approach to dealing with weapon wielding assailants; awareness training; and complete cirriculum including weapons, striking and grappling.
con: most techniques would bring litigation if you used them in civillian life; mindset and approach tend to be more combative, rather than controlled (more useful for killing an opponent, not apprehending them. Is this a problem in the PHilippines? ); emtpy hands aspect tends to be weak in 98% of schools.

2. Aikido - pro: excellent pain compliance techniques (joint locks) to subdue resisting subjects. Great for apprehensions.
con - unrealistic, over co-operative approach to training. Their applications practice is too choreographed.

3. Judo- pro: realistic training on how to physically control a resisting opponent.
con - mindset tends to be sport oriented. Many techniques depend on using opponents gi.

4. karate/tae kwon do: pro: striking skills
con: striking skills only, you're supposed to apprehend, not beat up.

5. Japanese jiu jitsu - pro: complete curriculum, striking, grappling and weapons. Good joint locks and pain compliance techniques.
con: none really; though some tradition systems have unrealistic approaches to both weapons and empty hand applications.

 

There are a few officers from a number of different countries. I'd start with Hannibal and Judderman who are both UK LEOs.

Here are mine in suggested order:

1. Blauer Tactical Systems (http://www.tonyblauer.com)
Blauer has already formatted his material for law enforcement (and actively teaches Police seminars and training programs). Effective and reality based, it provides a strong foundation in the psychological, emotional and physical realities of self defense. There are lots of great training methodologies here based on scientific and behavioral research. Plus I've seen it pressure tested and it holds up very well.

2. Filipino Martial Arts (in particular Pekiti Tirsia Kali)
The best way to understand how to defend against a weapon is to learn the weapon. Keeping that in mind things don't get much better than the Filipino arts. Covers weapons (especially bladed) extremely well. Whlie the techniques are brutal, they are extremely effective and gear for combat. They can also translate to police weapons (such as batton) very easily.

3. Small Circle Ju Jitsu
This build on traditional Ju Jitsu by Professor Wally Jay has been used for many years by police programs. In fact Professor Jay has created cirrculumn specifically for Police programs. This will give you great control and tactical locks. It will also cover some grappling.

4&5 can bo combined if you can find a shoot fighting program in your area

4. Muai Thai (kcikboxing)
Basic, brutal. will give you all the punching, elbowing and kicking skills you need. Nothing flashy. Very effective. Very basic (because you don't have time to master a full system with this overall type of cross training)

5. Brazilian Ju Jitsu/Catch Wrestling
This will cover any functional grappling/groundfighting gaps in the Small Circle Ju Jitsu and the other programs. Important so one can be well rounded in all ranges (really what you're looking for).

Honorary 6th: Hsing Yi
Very explosive and effective Traditional Chinese Martial Art. Extremely tactical and powerful, this sould be a good suplimental system to investigate to help teach officers how to generate striking power. This is used by police and militatry forces in China.

Hpoe this all helps,

- Matt

 

I am not a LEO but hope to be able to help you...


1. Silat and Arnis (same familly of martial arts). In Silat you usually start with empty hands first and move to weapons later (opposite in Arnis).... I won't discuss Arnis as it was already mentioned. Silat has incredible footwork that allows to deceive and fight multiple opponents, very unusual kicks and uses very fast striking.... pesilats strike and move as well on the ground as in stand up, also awareness training.
It has many subtle locks that make it ideal for controlling individuals (I can pm you some information on my first instructor, he developped security training program for different agencies in the US and other countries).

2. SYSTEMA or ROSS. Used by russian special forces in Russias battlefields and spec. ops, counterterrorism-police operations, hostage rescues.... Deals with everything: empty hands, close quarter weapons, firearms, psychological tricks and psychological aspect of fighting, generating explosive striking power, managing shock and pain... Ideal for LEOS because you can choose not to finish your opponent (prisoners were sometimes needed )...
Very high learning curve and very small risk of injuries for students... because it was developped to make good fighters out of inexperienced soldiers in a short time and those cannot afford to get injured during training...
Mr. Vassiliev former top spetsnaz instructor opened a school in Toronto and most of his students are LEOS or in the military, he also gives instruction to different security agencies.

 

look into wing chun.

it doesn't take alot of athletic training. wing chun kung fu uses your mind and body knowledge more then just strength. it also is faster to train people in for self defense purposes. it was designed for women and men, so it has low practical kicks.

the thing about wing chun is that a 1 year student has a well rounded knowledge of self defense and can use the knowledge practicly and instinctavly.

 

Peace officer here, just graduated a few months ago.
In no particular order:
Jujitsu
Hapkido
Filipino martial arts
Jeet Kune Do
Brazilian Jiujitsu
My Defensive Tactics instuctors were mostly Hapkido experts who crossed trained in Judo and Brazilian Jiujitsu, except for one who was a Praying Mantis/Kenpo guy. I think take downs, compliance holds, and learning positional control are most important but striking is very important too. Striking is important for when the sh*t hits the fan. I must say my Muay Thai helped me A LOT in the striking portion of class. Personally Im going to start Brazilian Jiujitsu pretty quick, and maybe Kyokushin Karate.

 

I work retail loss prevention-I have apprehended many people, not all of them compliant.
I assume,since you are law enforcement, you can not really rely on striking.
Therefore you are left with predominantly grappling.

I believe the suggestion of FMA is useful,not only for dealing with weapon wielding suspect but also for baton work(if you are allowed to carry).

I would suggest you investigate aikido(yoshinkan i think was developed for police work), Jujitsu, aikijutsu,chin na.

The art I take is predominantly striking with a little standup grappling and Bjj added as an extracurricular activity. The Bjj and standup grappling have been far more useful to me on the job!!

 

dilg? didn't the dilg train in sagasa before?

anyway here are my suggestions:

1) pikiti tirsia kali. it's already being used by the force recon marines and the pnp saf commandos (it also happens to be the art of choice of the u.s.m.c. force recon/ m.e.u. (s.o.c.)).

2) sagasa kickboxing and hagibis grappling. bakbakan has trained several military units with these including r.o.k. army special forces.

3) rapido realismo martial arts' kali sabakan. this is a no b.s. reality based self defense, home grown by talents like guro espera.

4) destructive edged weapons and tactics of the mumbakki.

5) kali illustrissimo. tatang tony or tatang romy. both are great.

6) kadena de mano.

 

thanx for the pro and cons sir.

 

thanx man.
got 10 single hand apprehention. 3 of them was on my 1st year in service.
ya judo really works, thank God. but i could say about striking is you wont have have the time to strike if your struggling in holding the knife.
then i could say its more of kotegaishi disarm w/o movements just grapling.

 

thanx sir. i hope they got trainings for special apprehention.

 

you try to use kickboxing in a pop hostage scenario. and if the hostage wont get her neck slit then i would agree w/ you. got one experience that i use my legs is when i flying kick an insane person trying to chop a mango tree w/ an axe. thats the only time kicking was required in disarming.

 

i was under the assumption that you were loking for a well rounded approach to self defense. unarmed combat is one of the basic building blocks of martial arts.

for the hostage situation you cited above (like the one where a druggie knifed a boy in the bus station a year back), i would get a .223 mssr. give it to a wpd swat. and tell him to take the hostage- taker out with a head shot.

flying kick against a weapon? you'd probably get you leg chopped or sliced.

 

yes sir. but as an officer, if you have to make a choice in a split second... no time for swat if pop scenario happens, as for the kick he was a mentally retarded person being complained for chopping the tree. so first i talk to him to make him loose his fucost them when he turned his head the other wait i did not know why i ran and kick him. i know it was very stupid and wont happen again. my sir told me how stupid i was and all my pulis budies teased me till know for that. they called me "manog dumog buang"

 

I agree completely about this art being useful in law enforcement. I think, however, that it would really be useful for something like crowd control where the sudden bursts of energy are great for pushing people back. For chin na, I think taiji chin na is more useful in that it is less explosive and less and more easily graduated in terms of force.

Wing chun? I have the same problem with this art that I do aikido, it looks great in demos but seems too exact and contrived to use in practical application against a resisting opponent, or one who's movements are unfamiliar. One of the criticisms of kung fu is that it only seems to work well against other kung fu styles, and I think this applies to wing chun more so.

With regard to sagasa "kickboxing", it's actually moe san shou and shuai chiao (sp?) than typical kick and punch only "kickboxing." It has a lot of throws and takedowns that could be useful.

I've spent a little time in the Philippines in the past and more than any individual art, I would suggest that your policement consider gaining more physical fitness and strength. I've never seen so many paunches on so many low energy policemen before. I remember the muscular tattooed toughs at the pier and I can't imagine these cops chasing anybody down, let alone physically controlling them if they do catch them regardless of any martial art.

 

oh! you should see our filipino pulis in action, our sargeant an spo3 about 200lbs+ of fat(where experiencing jogging to cut waist)
could chase you down and could kick the hell out of those pier muscle people.

 

Hello there!

I work as an LEO in the UK and I suspect our law with regards to what we can and cannot do are somewhat different!

PM me if you want, or post here, and then I can better offer an opinion when I know what your parameters are.

 

Just my opinion:

1. Arnis.
2. Karate or Taekwondo or any kickboxing.
3. Judo.
4. Some Aikido. The "combat" kind is preferred.

Should be sufficient. Puwede na siguro ito!

By the way...Was it not because of the common 36 and above waistlines that snatchers usually get away?

 

wheheheheh!!!!!
oo nga. just imagine pare nagta-taekwondo si bossing capt.