1st American Full Contact Match Used JKD

Discussion in 'Jeet Kune Do' started by JeetKuneDero, Oct 9, 2008.

  1. JeetKuneDero

    JeetKuneDero Valued Member

    [ame]http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=67NdOX2lj-k[/ame]
     
  2. Yohan

    Yohan In the Spirit of Yohan Supporter

    Why don't you qualify this? No offense or anything, but a thread where one has to go search the internet to figure out the whole picture pretty much qualifies as a low-content thread.
     
  3. JeetKuneDero

    JeetKuneDero Valued Member

    Yohan, how's things, martial brother?

    No offense taken, but thanks for considering that possible mis-interpretation.
    Shows a mataurity in your communications.

    I did qualify my post - elsewhere. You remember that thread which went in all directions when I posted a clip I said Lee would have said, 'now that's jkd" about? I posted a brief history of full contact on there.

    Other than that, quit being lazy and do some homework - lol
     
  4. Yohan

    Yohan In the Spirit of Yohan Supporter

    Can't complain, big guy, but then I never can.

    It's less for my benefit. I know who Joe Lewis was and I know who he trained with. I'm posting this because 90% of people aren't going to know, and most of those people aren't going to go do their homework. If you want to have a productive thread, you need to post the relevant information. Just posting a video in the first post isn't going to produce a productive thread.

    Just sayin.
     
  5. JeetKuneDero

    JeetKuneDero Valued Member

    I sort of agree. And yet, if they won't go beyond on their own, they will be like the girl in this story following anyway:

    While at a party in his honor, Einstein was asked by a young girl waht he did for a living. "I study physics," he replied. "Oh," said the girl, "I studied that in high school."
     
  6. Yohan

    Yohan In the Spirit of Yohan Supporter

    I do not think your allegory is applicable here due to the simple fact that one could be a high level JKD expert without ever knowing who Bruce Lee or Joe Lewis are.
     
  7. Semper Fi

    Semper Fi Valued Member

    I think it's a bit of a stretch w/o knowing who Bruce was, Joe Lewis on the other hand... yeah.
     
  8. JeetKuneDero

    JeetKuneDero Valued Member

    Were you not the Yohan who told someone else on the Chi thread to do a search if they wanted more info?

    Here we go again, all someone did was share, and the darn thing starts to go south.

    Okay, care to give an example of someone high level JKD who does not know who Bruce Lee was - for that matter - anyone in martial arts who's never heard of Bruce Lee. For that matter, on this or any other martial arts forum. Oh wait, I'm supposed to do what somehow does not apply to you - go do a simple search to find the answer...


    Okay, your turn...

    Big Guy - lol
     
  9. Yohan

    Yohan In the Spirit of Yohan Supporter

    First off, there is a difference between starting a thread that essentially covers the topic "what is Chi?" which has been done 100 times before, and having someone tell you to go use the search function, and making a thread with a claim in the title and a video with no explanation. Last time I checked, no one created a thread about JKD's contributions to early kickboxing. Personally I think it could be a very interesting thread if it was done in such a way as to provoke some discussion.

    Hey man, that's on you, not me. All I did was give you a suggestion to make the thread more accessible to people not "in the know" about JKD and it's exponents, and responded to your commentary from there on. If you want to continue this little side bar, I'm happy to tag along.

    No. It was a hypothetical statement.
     
  10. JeetKuneDero

    JeetKuneDero Valued Member

    Some hypothetical. Come on, you were off on that one. We're talking about a martial arts founder whose very name is handed down to this day. Whose own orginal students are still around! A founder who s a household name in the world of martial arts. Might as well tell that to Joe Lewis - that's the guy on the clip who narrates it, mentions both Bruce Lee and the subject of this thread more than once, Joe Lewis, the guy in black who wins the fight in that clip. Just in case anyone doesn't know who Joe Lewis or his famous in the world of martial arts instructor in JKD, is. JKD, meaning Jeet Kune Do.

    Let's do a contest - whoever on here has never heard of Bruce Lee gets a free subscription to martial arts palnet - lol

    Darn it, I've just realized; I had other clips to share - you know, where the guy on the last clip, Joe Lewis, the guy in black, expands on his time with what's his name, that guy that, what was it he did, oh yeah, the JKD guy. No, not JP Morgan, he founded a bank. Yeah, JP was an actual person... No, not T Boone Pickens, he's the oil guy - where were we?

    Hey, if my thread is going to go south then at least I got to fly it there if but for a minute. Ladies and gentleman, you may now unfasten your seat belts. Don't forget your "baggage," Yohan never does. :woo:
     
  11. Yohan

    Yohan In the Spirit of Yohan Supporter

    Look dude, take a step back and take a look at what just happened. You posted a video with no explanation. I suggested that you explain the video. Then you got into it with me and got your panties in a knot.

    If you want to share something or present something and have a discussion, feel free to do just that. If you want to get ****y and bicker, feel free to do just that. I'm down for bickering with you.
     
  12. JeetKuneDero

    JeetKuneDero Valued Member

    Yohan, though I was having fun with this :woo: it was coming from this:cool:
    Spoil sport :bang:
     
  13. Yohan

    Yohan In the Spirit of Yohan Supporter

    LoL it's hard to tell with you . . .

    So tell me about Joe Lewis' training history (both his Karate background and his training with Brucey).

    What is his fight record?

    Did he instruct in JKD?

    What did he bring to the table in the original JKD groups?

    Any particular focus he took in his training? Did he do it all? Did he stick to the kickboxing stuff?
     
  14. JeetKuneDero

    JeetKuneDero Valued Member

    "One never knows with you" - I'll take that as a compliment to a high level jkd man - lol

    Here's a Joe Lewis interview. I'll get back to you with more stuff. By the way, pm your email, I've got an article I want to send you. Here's the Joe Lewis interview's link - enjoy!

    http://www.fightingmaster.com/legends/lewis/interview.htm
     
  15. Yohan

    Yohan In the Spirit of Yohan Supporter

    tick
     
  16. fire cobra

    fire cobra Valued Member

    I must be getting old! i thought everyone who knew about JKD would know about Joe Lewis!.:)
     
  17. Yohan

    Yohan In the Spirit of Yohan Supporter

    The more I read about Joe Lewis, the more I like him.
     
  18. JeetKuneDero

    JeetKuneDero Valued Member

  19. JeetKuneDero

    JeetKuneDero Valued Member

    The following article containing a partial history of North American Full Contact Karate Competition is actually 6 pages long. It appears to back up Joe Lewis' words on the clip I began this thread with. Here is osme of that article:

    http://www.mikemiles.com/history2.html

    1969

    BRUCE LEE AND HIS INFLUENCE ON KICKBOXING PIONEER AND BLACK BELT HALL OF FAME INDUCTEE JOE LEWIS

    In North America, the birth of "American Kickboxing" in it's earliest and roughest form had its first unsuccessful attempt at the limelight in 1969. American Martial Arts Legend Joe Lewis * was frustrated by the unrealistic nature of tournament Karate, in which blows are pulled short of contact. Famed Martial Artist and Movie Star Bruce Lee referred to this type of competition as "swimming on dry land". He felt Martial Arts relied to much on mystique and not enough on practicality. Pioneer Joe Lewis, was making a name for himself on the very young American Martial Arts Tournament circuit. Lewis also felt this type of competition was a game of tag. Lewis and Lee started working together formulating a new approach to the Martial Arts. Though Lee did not compete, it is universally felt, that Joe Lewis was his 'working laboratory'. Both gentlemen had graduated to using the Martial Arts in a full contact environment. Influenced by his training sessions in boxing with Joey Orbillo and 'Kickboxing' with Bruce Lee, Lewis started training in various boxing gyms in Los Angeles with the full intentions of becoming a professional boxer (Lewis has admitted to me if he would have had his way he would have preferred to become a professional wrestler). In late 1969, Los Angeles promoter Lee Faulkner contacted Lewis to compete in a major non contact team contest. Lewis only agreed if Faulkner would permit him to compete in a Kickboxing match. At first finding a suitable opponent was very difficult for both the promoter and the athlete.


    *JOE LEWIS

    In late 1969 Joe Lewis introduced Full Contact fighting. He called it Kickboxing but it was later changed to Professional Karate or Contact Karate. In 1972 Lewis quits Kickboxing. In his last fight against Jesse King, promoter Aaron Banks was supposed to pay a certain fee and does not. Banks holds the event in the middle of the week and has poor attendance for the event and blames it on Lewis stating "Lewis' name has no pull anymore." In 1973 Lewis states, "Thai kicking is less powerful (than Karate) and it's punching is relatively poor". In 1983 (at the age of 39), he made a courageous comeback to try and regain his World Heavyweight Full Contact Title, but he retired before regaining the title. Re-retired after 2 straight losses complaining of no money and no glory in fighting anymore.


    1970

    JOE LEWIS AND THE FIRST ACKNOWLEDGED 'AMERICAN KICKBOXING' FIGHT

    The Fight On The Clip I Posted

    Eventually Lewis found an opponent and had his first Kickboxing match on January 17th, 1970 by knocking out Greg Baines (a San Jose Kenpo stylist) to become the first U.S. Heavyweight 'Kickboxing' Champion. During the bout, the announcer kept calling the bout 'American Kickboxing'. The mistake in terminology caught on and Joe Lewis became known as the man who pioneered 'American Kickboxing' in North America. Joe Lewis defended his title ten times with no opponent lasting through the second round.

    The Clip once more:

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67NdOX2lj-k"]YouTube[/ame]


    http://www.mikemiles.com/history6.html



    1974

    AMERICAN REBIRTH UNDER A NEW NAME

    In North America mid way through the Bruce Lee boom (1974), there was a renewed attempt by Joe Lewis and Tom Tannenbaum to create a new "realistic" type of competition in the Martial Arts, and the (re)birth of Kickboxing under the name of Full Contact Karate resulted. Lewis brought in promoter Mike Anderson, and one of the most extraordinary events in American Karate history took place. Anderson figured it was the best (and only) way to increase spectator interest in Karate. Anderson made a contact with German Karate entrepreneur George Bruckner. The German conducted an elimination event in Europe to determine the European Full Contact Karate representatives. In America, three of the four representatives were chosen on the basis of their divisional supremecy in the USA point Karate ratings. Several months before the event Anderson formed a promotion company with Don and Judy Quine who in turn finalized the negotiations with Universal Television. The event turned out to be very successful and it was televised (ABC's Wide World of Entertainment) from the Los Angeles Sports Arena and it also received non-Martial Arts related magazine coverage. The event grossed $50,000 US at the gate. Legendary American athletes who had a made a name for themselves in Point Fighting (Bill Wallace, Jeff Smith, Joe Lewis, and Howard Jackson) made the transition over to "Full Contact Karate". Fourteen athletes competed at the event and three of the four Americans won World Karate Titles (Wallace, Smith & Lewis) and were paid $3000.00 US each for winning (Jackson was suffering from a severe knee injury and lost his bid for the title). These athletes were supported by the first "American Full Contact Karate" sanctioning body known as the Professional Karate Association (PKA) which was formed by both Quine's and Anderson a month before the event. At this event Anderson reported a personal loss of $60,000 and Tannenbaum sold the rights of the event to ABC.


    CONTROVERSY IN THE NAME
    The success of Full Contact Karate at this time brought criticism and controversy from the traditional Martial Arts community. It was contended that Full Contact Karate degraded the art form and that it would affect the enrollment in these schools. It was also felt that the televised Full Contact Karate would lead viewers to believe that this was the required course of learning in the traditional schools. These detractors felt that there should be no association with the word "Karate" to the new sport and they vocally sought for the sport to be known as "Kickboxing". Initially this was not to be, the sport could only be sold to television because of the popularity of Karate. "Kickboxing" on the other hand was associated with the far more brutal sports in Thailand and Japan. Kickboxing was viewed as too violent and so there was a push for the name of the sport to be known as Full Contact Karate. The name worked at the time and thus the sport was broadcast as such. It was not until the 1980's that the term "Kickboxing" would start to surpass the use of the term "Full Contact Karate"....

    WORLD OF MARTIAL ARTS 12/2074 12/21/74
    Convinced that Full Contact was the way to go, Benny Urquidez entered the World Series of Martial Arts in 1974. There were 58 entries including Boxers, Wrestlers, Street Fighters, Sumo Wrestlers and Martial Artists. The rules allowed everything including elbows, knees, and head butting. The Grand Championship was worth $5000. In the first day Urquidez and Dana Goodsen* were knocking everyone out. On the second day people were badly injured and pulling out which left 10 entrants left in the competition. Urquidez defeated Goodsen by third round decision (not by fourth round KO as Urquidez has claimed).


    *DANA GOODSEN (now deceased)

    Benny Urquidez claims to have knocked Dana Goodsen out in Tommy Lee's World Series of Martial Arts Championships. The Championship took place in 1974 (not 1973 as Urquidez has stated). Benny has said he knocked Goodsen out in the fourth round. Urquidez did not knock Goodsen out and all the fights in the event were fought over 3 rounds, not 4. This was Dana's first professional fight. Goodsen had 3 grueling rounds with Blinky Orderlies before meeting Urquidez. On the other hand Urquidez had had fought and won a TKO in the fight before meeting Goodsen.


    THE HUMBLE START OF THE PKA
    11,500 fans saw Mike Anderson's* induction of the World Professional Karate Championships. This televised event was to set the stage for the new Professional Karate Association (PKA) and was in fact sanctioned by the PKA. Athletes came from Seoul, Hakata, Mexico City, Montreal, Toronto, Berlin, Belgrade, Santa Domingo and Memphis and all would battle for $20000 in prize money. 4 divisions were set up: lightweight (152 lbs. and under), middleweight (165 lbs. to 152 lbs.), lightheavyweight (182 lbs. to 165 lbs.), and heavyweight (183 lbs. and over). Bouts were to be 3 rounds of 2 minutes. A round would end by a knockdown and the athlete knocking the other athlete down would automatically win the round. When the event was over 4 men received cheques for $3000 each. They were Bill Wallace, Jeff Smith, Joe Lewis and the big upset of the event Mexico's Isaiah Duenas (the lightweight division was suppose to go to heavily favored Howard Jackson). The first of 2 lightweight elimination matches featured American Howard Jackson* stepping into the ring against Dominican Republic's Ramon Smith. Both men exchanged punches in bunches and each delivered token kicks during the exchanges. Jackson showed none of his fast kicking and footwork because a week before the event he had injured his knee in a tournament (stepping on a paper cup and twisting the knee). Smith no longer fearing Jackson’s kicks, attacked with punches and kicks. Jackson attempted an unsuccessful takedown and Smith countered with his own successful takedown as well as a punch to the head. Smith was awarded the bout. Mexico's Isaiah Duenas stepped into the ring against Germany's Frank Knittel. Duenas was in control of the bout. Knittel was knocked out midway through the 2nd round. The first of the middleweight elimination matches featured Bill Wallace stepping into the ring against Germany's Bernd Grothe. Wallace easily won the first 2 rounds and in the final round knew all he had to do was simply avoid getting knocked out and he would win the fight. Wallace toyed with the German. Canada's Daniel Richer battled with Korea's Byong Yu. Richer won the first round and the 2nd and 3rd rounds were won by split decision in favor of the Canadian. In the Lightheavyweight division, Canada's Wally Slocki* stepped into the ring with Japan's Ryu Kenji. The Japanese athlete had come in due to communication error almost 30 lbs. less than the Canadian. Slocki laid a beating on the Japanese to easily win the fight. American Jeff Smith stepped into the ring against Yugoslavian Budimir Yejnovic. With 12 seconds left in the first round, Smith caught his foe with a ridgehand followed by a kick and his foe slumped to the ground. There was no need to count. The lightweight final had Isaiah Duenas (Mexico) against Ramon Smith (Dominican Republic). In the 3rd round the fight ended with a TKO of Smith by a punch from his Mexican foe. Duenas had won the first 2 round convincingly. Bill Wallace (USA) squared off with Daniel Richer (Canada) for the middleweight final. Wallace won all 3 rounds convincingly. Lightheavyweights Jeff Smith (USA) stepped into the ring with Wally Slocki (Canada). Smith won the 1st round and Slocki won the 2nd round. Pandemonium took place in the final round with confusing instructions being told to the Canadian and the result was a deduction of a point. Smith won the bout but the fight had great promise for a rematch in Toronto. In the final heavyweight bout Joe Lewis (USA) stepped into the ring with Franc Brodar (Yugoslavia). Lewis played with his foe and dropped him with a solid punch to the nose to win round 1. Lewis started the 2nd round slow but picked up the pace and dropped his foe in the second round with a combination of punches and kicks. The biggest problem with the tournament was the rules. The athletes could not throw too many punches in a row or they would be warned. There was a definite push to see kicking taking place (the beginning of the minimum kick requirement rule).


    *MIKE ANDERSON

    One of the founders of the PKA (with the Quine's) criticizes Aaron Banks for televising 'sloppy and out of shape' champions on television. Splits involvement with the Quine's and the PKA. He founds the World Martial Arts Association after and makes big contacts. However, the project fizzles out.


    *HOWARD JACKSON

    Originally scheduled to fight on the first PKA World Championships, Jackson destroyed his knee twisting on a paper cup the week before the championships. The knee injury was to plague him and it would be 6 years before he would finally win his first world title, the WKA World Welterweight Championship, winning it in Las Vegas defeating Japan's Yoshimitsu Tamashiro soundly. Jackson's buddy Steve Fischer's dad (also Steve) struck up a friendship with the fighter. Steve convinced Jackson to try his hand at boxing.


    *WALLY SLOCKI

    A student of Benny Allen. Slocki announced his retirement from competition in 1974 when he was asked to fight in the World Professional Karate Championships in LA. His first opponent Ryu Kenji, was supposed to be the Japan Karate Champion but he was over rated, under powered and underweight, so much so, that he looked like a puppet dangling on the end of Slocki's punches and kicks. The fight prompted a lot of sympathy for Kenji and made Slocki look like a bully.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2008
  20. fire cobra

    fire cobra Valued Member

    Personally i dont think Joe Lewis was that good a fighter,i dont think he could of handled Muay Thai low kicks etc,unlike say Benny Urquidez who i think would of been a top MMA fighter today:)
     

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