Discussion in 'Health and Fitness' started by Jeff Burger, Oct 24, 2007.
I liked the car inner tube around the bag idea better than the 100 pushup method, but that's just me.
How many push ups can you do now?
Way less than 100
I'm are working on that by lifting in the gym.
Best exercise for an event is the event itself.
Push ups are functional, bench press wont help your push ups much.
Sadly, my own experience supports this. Just before I started weight training I managed to break out a fairly easy 59 pushups in one minute (it was a timed exercise we did in a kung fu class once). I still had a few left in the tank, as well. Shortly afterwards I quit kung fu and took up weight training. I did all low-rep heavy work. After about a year my strength had sky-rocketed, but the total amount of pressups I could do dropped to about 40, and they were a struggle.
Cool, but I hope you're not implying that bench press isn't.
I like his method of counting and I use something similar my self (I like to count to 20) but in the end if you want big numbers on pushups or pull ups just do them everyday, I like one day a week off but frequency of training is IMO key to bodyweight exercises. My 10 year old son did 125 pushups at his BB test in September. We had a heat wave this summer so when he was board we would have him do pushups. I was disappointed that I was only able to do 93 pushups for my test but I can still smoke him on pull up.
What do you mean by functional?
Who cares about doing 100 push ups, it has little value for the martial artist.
I'm not implying bench press is not functional, it is not a functional exercise so I dont need to imply it.
Do you know something every martial art and every professional combat athelete doesn't know? Because they all do them and for a reason.
Well seeing as you don't care it think has little value I would have thought you knew what functional exercises were.
I'm starting to remember why I didn't post here in a couple years.
You didn't answer my question, what do you actually mean by functional? There are a load of different definitions and I'm trying to see what you mean. I'm looking for your definition.
As for 100 push ups: What value does it actually have? When you get to 100 reps all you are pushing is the endurance strength of your upper body pushing. Most combat athletes these days tend to focus more on anaerobic conditioning and strength endurance rather than the ability to do a certain calisthenic for a long period of time. I'm not knocking the push up as an exercise (it is a good one) but what I do think is ridiculous is the amount of emphasis some people put on it to the detriment of other movements. Most people are too biased towards pushing movements as it is which cause you problems further down the line and actually limits your overall performance. I would rather see most people work towards a higher number of pull ups rather than concentrating on hitting an arbitrary high number of push ups.
Side note - So somebody disagrees with you and that means you stop posting? If that is your attitude then why are you here? Please just answer my question and maybe we can actually talk. If you don't want to discuss the issue then don't post.
That's because you fell out with some people over your 'secret' training methods.
The idea that being able to do 100's of push ups is necessary for MA went out the window with the advent of the MMA explosion. Sure, we need to be able to lift our own bodyweight, but once somebody can do 30+ push ups (or variations thereof, divebombers, dands, diamonds, etc) there are more efficient ways of building strength and endurance.
A much simpler method of saying what I said
Yeah, but you're smarter than I am when it comes to these things, I just use laymans speak
Thats right I didn't. Look it up.
Really? I train with professional MMA guys, part of their training is hundreds of squats and push ups.
I'm here and posted it for those who may want it. You didn't want it so why comment?
Itelligent discussion - didn't feel like I was being meet half way.
Nothing secret about push ups but I put in alot of time and effort to find out how to make big improvements with simple exercises.
I offered it to people on a secure thread because I was making some fitness books, I didn't want to throw something I was planning on publishing out there for free and wanted more feedback.
People signed up to it with no intention of doing it and then giving it to other people anyway.
Their loss in the long run.
Actually, I've just read through the old thread, it would appear that you abandoned the people on the thread. I'm assuming you were trying to use them as a control group for your book (how's that going?).
What are the names of the professional fighters?
Guess you chose not to acknowledge this part of my post.
That train high volume body weight? All of them. Almost every coach I have worked with here in the US, China, Thailand and Japan.
In seminars and training camps with fighters and coaches like Ken Shamrock, Tony Checchine, Oscar De La Hoya, (Muay Thai champions) Ravee Dachachai and Sanapra, Rajisek, Moo Haa.............
Who is telling you not to?
If anyone has something positive to ask or add I'll reply.
Arguing over something you don't want to do is a waste of my time.
i believe after doing 30 pushups you stop training strength, and are training more endurance, so if you want to train strength which is important you need to do other things like bench press, one handed pushups, handstand press, weighted etc... but don't discount endurance, doing 100 pushups gives you the endurance you may need, especially MMAers and boxers who do intense rounds need this kind of endurance, you ever heard of a boxer not doing pushups??? anyway this arguement is soooooo boring and predictable..... BJJ Vs karate.... any takers?... no?...
Personally I like push ups better over all than bench, push ups are more of a compound movement, works back arms chest abs and even legs and bench is more of an isolation exercise focusing on arms and chest. They are both very valuable exercises but different.
So why worry about how many push ups I can do? Simple my teacher told my son and me to do our best on the test. We trained long and hard and the above numbers were the best we could do.
Jeff - Adam asked what you meant by "functional training" because almost everyone has their own pet definition of what it involves.
Functionality is a concept that is entirely tied to the context of the subject matter. "Exercise" is far too broad a concept to imply anything specific regarding your meaning with regard to "functional". Generally speaking most people mean "training with intent to produce real-world athletic results", but of course the inherent question is specifically what athletic events?
You cite the use of the pushup in high repetitions by professional fighters as evidence of its functionality and relevance as a training technique specifically for full contact fights. And yet, it is even easier to demonstrate examples of such individuals using the bench press (an exercise which you classify as "non-functional"). I am not a giant fan of the bench press as a training tool, but the contradiction here is quite apparent.
Adam also pointed out that most professional fighters use combinations of maximal strength training with loads of "anaerobic" (not the greatest term but I think people get the idea) conditioning. His contention (which I also understood to be true) was that training specifically for high repetitions of calisthenics will indeed improve localized muscular endurance, but that this result isn't necessarily entirely aligned with the primary goals of martial arts competitive fitness.
This is not to say that being able to perform high repetitions of calisthenics is a bad thing, or is at all undesirable. Calisthenics may very easily and successfully be incorporated into forms of anaerobic conditioning, and individuals who do so will undoubtedly end up able to perform appreciably high repetitions of them - however this is done with the more broad (and arguably relevant) goal of improving overall conditioning of the metabolic pathways, which is something that is not necessarily accomplished through training that is specific to increasing the number of repetitions.
You obviously feel very strongly that performing high repetitions of calisthenics is very relevant to martial arts training. Rather than simply wishing to discredit you, I am very interested to hear why you feel this way - please don't misunderstand my intent.
Also, I am very interested as to what kind of workouts you encountered with respect to calisthenics in the MMA seminars you mentioned.
I've added that site to my bookmarks, because for the sake of vanity I would like to be able to do 100 pushups and I need all the solo training ideas I can get. But seriously, while the pushup is a key exercise for work capacity in the upper body, I doubt you'd benefit if you concentrated on it to the neglect of exercises like the bench press.
Separate names with a comma.