I hear Kyokushin is pretty tough. There is also a more obscure style called "Daido Juku" where grappling in at the core of the system, in addition to striking.
Whichever one does the most full contact sparring and trains the hardest. If you're not getting wailed on at training expect to get butchered in the ring.
I think that this question is unanswerable and is alomost like asking what rugby player would do well in a football game. As Karate,(although sharing some similarities with MMAs) is a completely different art, therefore the students of a karate club will have different aims, objectives and outlooks from students from a MMA School. I think this would also work the other way if you had to ask what MMA system or school would do well in a karate tournament, again the arts are very different and would struggle to cope with each others rules, regulations and difference of techniques/ fighting styles. Just my 2 pence worth
No. Not on it's own, at least. Gaps in the style include no punching to the head, no takedowns and no groundwork. It would probably be ok as a base striking style for MMA, trained along with some sort of grappling. Not as good as Boxing or Thai Boxing though.
Wado Ryu would be a good style because in theory it involves striking and grappling etc. But in practice it is poorly taught and most schools leave out the Jiu Jitsu element totaly so i would go with Kyukushin if any karate at all. Id personally say Kickboxing or Muay Thai would be more beneficial because they would involve far more conditioning and so on but its your choice
You should have at least read the question first. He asked which Karate style would do best in MMA. NOT how should he cross-train with karate for MMA.
Nanbudo brings up some good points about a common question that comes out of misinformation. If you've been around long enough you would know that every decade brings it's new fad or "flavor of the day". In the sixties you didn't hear as much about karate as "judo" which was the more well known martial art. When the 70's rolled in and the Green Hornet appeared on American TV with his side kick "Kato" played by Bruce Lee, things began to change. Once Bruce Lee came on the scene and began to make movies the new craze was Kung Fu. Just like with MMA it was the "unbeatable system". (Unless you go back to Count Dante and the Dim Mak days!!) After that it was (still riding the Bruce Lee wave) "no style". Everyone was claiming to have no style ala Jeet Kun Do and began taking knowledge from everywhere and creating their own thing, again unbeatable fighting systems. It goes on and on. If you look at today MMA is the new excitement. Just prior to this was Brazilian JJ which has already begun to take a back seat to the more enhanced MMA. Someday both will give way to the new latest craze. Now, as for what can beat what, well we all know that is up to the individual not the art, throw Tyson into the MMA ring in his prime, he was a street fighter too don't forget. Rember that MMA is a sport and as such is governed by rules besides being confined to cage. Taking karate (any Japanese/Okinawan system) in it's purest no sport form, most techniques for disabling an opponent would be forbidden by the rules of the "sport". When the question of which art would win comes up people are thinking in the wrong direction, they are thinking which sport would beat which sport. They are conditioned to think of competition karate when they think of the striking arts. As I stated above MMA is the latest craze and it comes out of the ground fighting craze. While it can be argued that karate doesn't have ground fighting, it is hopeful that the altercation wouldn't go that far. Which when you think about it you would only ever run into MMArtist in the ring...sport...not in the street trying to rip you off. Karate is bout defending yourself, not beating the latest fighting art. Anyway, go back to pure karate which contains throws, locks and grappling within it's techniques and you have something close to what people are calling a new art...MMA! Most of what you see in a MMA bout outside of purposely taking the fight to the ground, is already within karate. How the individual uses that information and those techniques, and practices them hard with a resisting opponent is up to them. The only real difference I see in MMA is the ground fighting, the rest of it is just karate in it's purest form, as a matter of fact, on their feet their hand and feet techniques are pretty lousy. You have to take the ref away, the ring, the rules and then have two trained individuals go at it. They will use all the knowledge their art contains and IMO karate contains more, how deep you understand and look is up to you, the individual. If a MMA gets a fighter from another art on the ground it may be all over, if the fighter of another art get's a MMA in the throat or breaks his sternum or collar bone with a punch it may be all over. If a scared streetfighter get's an unorthodoxed looking and unexpected kick to any fighters groin followed by a knife attack it's all over!! The answer to the question "which karate style would do best" is any of them. There are more similarities than differences between the styles. Train any of them properly and hard enough and they would be just as effective. Tommy
The nly art that I know to have some history in MMA is Kyokushin but I think that Daido Juku could do well by what i've seen of it (Very little though that is). The art not the artist is relevant but the nature of full contact means that the art also changes it's practitioner.
Re read my post, you are thinking in the direction of "sport" That immediately causes you to think "light" or non contact practice. Karate practice at it's purest is full contact bare knuckle. We assume sport and so auotomatically think non contact training. If you are practicing karate they way it was before sport you would be throwing, locking and fighting full contact. When in the ring(MMA) and grappling around by the fence I see many knee kicks being thrown. The fight could be ended were it not a sport, right there and then by stomping the knee inward and to the mat, snapping it. That's real fighting. Tommy
I wasn't actually replying to your post in particular, just aiming it at everyone that holds that view. the question was about which style of karate would perform best in MMA, nothing more or less.
I have a black belt in GoJu Ryu karate and have trained at a number of tough clubs for a total of about nine years I started thai boxing last year and love it Karate training gave me a huge head start in it, even the clinch work is very similar to what i have practiced in karate in the past so what is the point in this................. started MMA recently, and it couldnt be more different than what i have done in the past I did graple in karate, just didnt realise how basic that grappling was MMA sparring goes along these lines Get taken down - get pinned - get pounded - get submitted stand up again Get taken down - get pinned - get pounded - get submitted stand up again Get a punch in - Get taken down - get pinned - get pounded - get submitted Get taken down - get pinned - get pounded - get submitted etc Conclusion Based on personal experience Karate does not translate at all well into MMA for people of my level of ability But i'm sure when my ground game improves, i will be able to utilise my previous skills more and more Right now i am training in brazilian ju-jitsu, MMA, thai boxing, lifting weights and running
The common thread I see running through your post is "get taken down". If you had good karate skills do you think (without getting taken down) that you could fare well on your feet? What would be the difference at that point, excluding the shoot for the takedown, just punching and kicking. At that point it would be the same as any kick punch art. The difference comes with inexperience in getting your legs attcked by a shoot and taken down. Now for the big question. "IF" you trained hard in your Goju and in addition developed one effective defense to guard against the takedown thus keeping the fight up on the feet, how do you think you'd do? I think that they have got you playing their game when you go into a MMA school. They are practicing one defense against your attack (punch kick) and that defense is the takedown. What if you forced them to fight your game by defending the takedown? Tommy
I think you must have trained at a sucky ass MMA school if they only taught one takedown and never taught any good standup.
Thanks for the reading comprehension advice. If you'd looked closer, you'd have noticed that I'd quoted the OP's "So am I right with Kyokushin?" question and answered in response to that.
I asked the question of "one technique" only to make a point and get an answer to a question, not to infer that that is all that might be taught. Sorry if you didn't understand the question. As far as me and MMA, I've never even seen the inside of a school. I get involved in conversation here to see what is on peoples minds, common perceptions and understanding. I have been training in Martial arts for a very long time and I'll tell you how I think I would do against a MMArtist. I think I would get my hide handed to me!!!! For one thing I'm old, for another (due to age) I am geared toward the street and getting it done quickly and "NOT" going to ground (it's doubtful I'll be mugged by a MMA expert ). I know most fights end on the ground but not in the same capacity as MMA. I can tell you that from a long experience in street fighting. The average street fighter would have a hard time getting a trained individual down. Another thing is that MMA are well conditioned for sport just like a boxer or a wrestler and conditioned to last a long time, I am not conditioning myself in that capacity. My goals are different compared to MMA and I train to that end. If I were younger and were able to put in equal time and training in my art, as they are doing then I say who knows, guess we never will. Now, give me the average MMA my age and I say that's an unknown. May the better man win Tommy
Tres bien! For this is the difference between your average karateka and your average MMAer! Your average successful MMAer is HUGE! Forget all that crap about stylistic differences, if you wanna do well in MMA, become a muscular giant. Having recently seen MMAers training for a cage fight, the main thing that struck me wasn't "wow they can kick so much better than I can" or "wow, if only karate taught me that technique" - it was "blimey, these guys are huge and even if I hit them with a perfectly placed strike, they'd probably shrug it off and slap me senseless". There's a balance between technical finesse and pure physical toughness and MMA emphasises point B, whereas karate tends to be more focussed on point A. If you have to defend yourself on the street - chances are it won't be against a disciplined, body-building, martial arts fanatic. So UFC etc are massively artificial tests of MA.
Mma Tommy my man you have taken the wordr right of my mouth! I get so tired of people thinking that this style is better than that style. Its about technical application of knowledge. If karate is taken away from sport and back to jutsu then people will see but all in all i agree 100% with TOMMY P
