But the Wing Chun "history" is most likely a modern fabrication. Japanese Koryu arts were transmitted by literate noble families who treasured them. Chinese martial arts were typically transmitted by illiterate professional men of violence who were looked down on by the upper classes. There is no paper for most systems.
I'd also say many have fell out with Yau over the years, mostly due to business reasons I've never heard any ex students say anything bad about his skills or teaching ability, and a large number of very talented martial artist have stayed loyal to him for decades, guys who have studied with other well known masters and other styles stay with him. Which speaks to his skill set somewhat.
I have no primary evidence, Its only really after seeing multiple threads about it elsewhere and on map, that ive even generally thought about it. But in the interview I posted, JY does avoid the question somewhat. I've no dog in this fight, Ill let the thread return to the OP now
if you read to the end - "And it doesn’t matter if they can kick your ass because it’s not about the paper. It’s about being a man or woman of integrity. It’s about being a person of one’s word. Without that, a teacher has nothing – absolutely nothing – that can’t be acquired elsewhere and far better." ps this was a general point, not directed personally at anyone.
integrity?? ive come across guys in both TCMA and MMA who i wouldnt trust further than i could throw them, but who i could learn something from. A lot of the best teachers of TCMA were good because well they were thugs who learned how to fight would you not have learned from Cheung Lai-Chuen because he claimed to have learned from someone who no one can find any evidence of or line from and whose system lineage simply cant be really believed? if thats the case you would have missed out training with one of the greatest Chinese fighters of the modern era It does matter if they can kick your ass because you are going to them to learn how to fight not to learn about morals, i know a few very nice teachers who would never lie to you and whose lineage is very good, and who cant fight there way out of a paper bag....would you both training with them if you wanted to learn to fight? Or put another way theres a reason most of the good chinese teachers were brought over by associations back in the day, its because they were mmm enforcers or because they had to escape hong kong for a reason And as Ben says allot of Chinese styles history is oral from illiterate farmers and laymen, who have a cultural history of ancestor worship, whose to say what Yau is preaching isnt what he believes and isnt what his grand father taught him, doesn't mean its right, but also doesn't mean he is lying
Yep Yau came up with the kick boxing syllabus, he had his guys competing in karate tourneys because there wasn't kung fu kick boxing events to attend when he started teaching, he personally managed and coached the national squad for a number of years, back when they won everything they entered nationally and internationally Yau and Lau gar had a big influence on the setting up of semi contact fighting in Europe, and if you look at the WAKO board in the UK for example you can still see that influence
I wouldnt have an ongoing training relationship with anyone who knowingly lies to their students. Having integrity doesnt mean you cant fight, and being a thug doesn't mean you havnt got integrity. Becoming a long term student of someone you know lies to their students is just setting yourself up for failure. Its obviously a personal choice though.
Depends on what your goals are I suppose, and your definition of integrity, As far as im aware someone like Lloyd Irwin has never lied about his BJJ lineage, not sure I would train with him though or call him a good role model As i said Yau has a number of long term students who are well known in the Chinese and wider martial arts world, id hardly say the likes of Neville Wray, Sean Viara, Curtis Page, Andrew Nation etc as having set themselves up for failure And as pointed out by Ben Chinese martial arts isnt exactly codified and written like other arts, so Yau could very well be telling the truth as he knows it and passed down to him.
LI is a prime example of someone with no integrity who lies to his students / others, as ive said before lineage per say doesnt matter as much as personal integrity. If JY is just repeating what he himself was told, then thats not lying. Either I'm phrasing this really badly, or my original point has got hella mangled. So anyway, back to the OP. is UK LG different to original LG, if so, why? and is it for the better for it?
Theres the rub, what is original LG, china is a vast place, LG is much different from Lau Gar fist as taught in hung gar, but Lau Gar means lau family so does it come from the same source, did a teacher change it drastically so it looks different, was that person Yau, his grand father, his teacher? Changes and differences between arts using the same name are legion in china Hung gar is a classic example, there are versions of village hung keun in mainland china which look totally different from what we know as hung gar, they use the same name though Go look at southern mantis, iron ox hand looks drastically different from Lee Wing Sing’s version, which again looks different from Lam Sang’s hand, all from the same temple source, all different and have come around in the last handful of decades Heck look at bak mei, its different between what is taught in Guangzhou and hong kong, stances are higher, the style more compact in hong kong, different sets taught in each place, and THOSE changes came from one teacher CLC who taught in both places . I think the question is which version of lau gar works for you, what Yau teaches seems to work for a large percentage of students, thousands have trained and continue to train the style, hundreds have been with him for decades, dozens of those have won british and European and world titles in semi cpontact kick boxing, a few did very well in full contact events. Personally after training in Yau’s style for a decade, 6 of those directly with him on a weekly basis I found other Chinese arts and other sport combat arts that fitted me personally better, but I have no question that he knows real Chinese kung fu (everything from weapons, forms, conditioning, medicine, to meditation) and can make it work in and out of the ring and teach people to use it both in and out of the ring. Also I never had cause to question his integrity, I rolled my eyes at him for saying he never made any money from the art because I found that hard to believe, but everyone puts a price on their skills and their time, and he was always free with his knowledge AFTER you had proved yourself to him, That was and is a standard thing with old school chinese teachers I think, you have to prove loyalty to them, and questioning them on things like lineage and basically calling into question their family lor isn’t something they appreciate. Different times, different cultures and all that
Then of course there's the real reason we should all cut Yau some slack, with out him there would be no Michael venom page :evil: https://youtu.be/HMGm9P1tfbg
I'm very skeptical of Jeremy Yau's Lau Gar. The only place it has been proven to work is in above-waist semi contact pointfighting and light continuos kickboxing. I've trained at 2 kickboxing clubs where the instructors learned Lau Gar and I don't see anything unique about it. Is it the ridge hand or chambered kicks that makes it unique? What about Lau Gar's grappling? Why do most the people I know cross train in BJJ or Japanese Ju Jitsu? Is Lau Gar's grappling not very good? The 'true' Lau Gar is part of Hung Gar in China.
Early Clash of the Titans event were usually won by TAGB teams, often beating Lau Gar to it in the process. It was telling that when TAGB last entered (and won) the Clash, Dave Oliver was asked in an interview beforehand by Bob Sykes who they most feared. He answered, "It's the Lau, Bob." I don't know a lot about them, other than their famous competitors and being at a Clash event to watch them, so I wouldn't want to comment on their lineage etc, but certainly they were a big influence on, and very competitive in, the kickboxing scene in the UK, and produced great competitors.
I know I'm going off-topic but is the pointfighting by TAGB similar to freestyle pointfighting or WTF taekwondo point-fighting? I hate Lau-Gar based kickboxing because it's either pointfighting or above-waist kickboxing; as I've said before, Lau Gar loses to Muay Thai under K-1 rules. I don't know much about Lau Gar grappling but most people who did Lau Gar also did Ju Jitsu or BJJ so I'm skeptical of it
WTF TKD is full contact. You can win by knocking someone out by kicking them unconscious. It is pointfighting in the same way that boxing is pointfighting, but with a more elaborate scoring system. TAGB tournament sparring is essentially light continuous kickboxing, as was Lau Gar. Muay Thai loses to Lau Gar and Kickboxing under light continuous rules. Anyone from kickboxing who wanted to compete under rules that allow grappling would learn to grapple. Judoka who didn't cross train would lose every kickboxing bout they ever entered. So what?
What about TAGB point fighting? Is it kicks only like WTF? I did that on purpose. I said Lau Gar loses to Muay Thai under K-1 rules, not Muay Thai rules. Take away the elbow strikes and clinching and Muay Thai will still win. Not to mention most Lau Gar people I know also do BJJ/Japanese Ju Jitsu so there must be a limitation in the grappling too
No, TAGB point fighting allows punches to the head. As for the next bit, I think you missed my point. Muay Thai loses to people trained under continuous kickboxing rules to people who have trained under those rules As for grappling, why would anyone competing in light continuous learn grappling? How much time does Saenchai spend on his ground game?