Trained Woman vs Untrained Man

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by Aegis, Dec 12, 2017.

  1. Aegis

    Aegis River Guardian Admin Supporter

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  2. Mushroom

    Mushroom De-powered to come back better than before.

    I was tagged to this story on facebook. I believe she is 7-0 in amateur MMA fights.

    I never wish harm on anyone. However, I hope he learns a lesson in this. I've gone up against a female amateur boxing champion (80kg) in sparring and had my head snapped well back. And I've tapped to female grapplers way smaller than me.

    I might not be any good but I've had way more training than this guy. So.....yeah I may try and watch.
     
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  3. philosoraptor

    philosoraptor carnivore in a top hat Supporter

  4. Morik

    Morik Well-Known Member Supporter MAP 2017 Gold Award

    I would love to watch, but my guess is the guy isn't going to show.
     
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  5. philosoraptor

    philosoraptor carnivore in a top hat Supporter

    I wouldn't.
     
  6. Morik

    Morik Well-Known Member Supporter MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Maybe I'm petty, but I do enjoy watching people reap what they sow. If the guy does show up, I'm going to watch, waiting for the moment when he realizes how this is actually going to go down. And when the light of realization hits his face as he fails to stop Ms. Dempster from walking all over him, I will drink it in and enjoy.
     
  7. philosoraptor

    philosoraptor carnivore in a top hat Supporter

    I think in this case we can indulge in that sort of enjoyment.
     
  8. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Wouldn't watch or wouldn't show up?
     
  9. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    I absolutely hope he gets his face caved in and taps to strikes.

    I'll also laugh if he wins. Just because it'd be funny reading the comments on Facebook for weeks.

    Hope she wins thouhrg, and I REALLY hope he shows up.
     
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  10. philosoraptor

    philosoraptor carnivore in a top hat Supporter

    Show up!
     
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  11. philosoraptor

    philosoraptor carnivore in a top hat Supporter

    You make some screwed up racist or sexist comments and people tend to take that personal.
     
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  12. Mushroom

    Mushroom De-powered to come back better than before.

    Thats the thing though. Its lose lose lose for him.
    :D

    He wins : "well you beat up a girl to prove your point"
    He loses : "you got beat up by a girl bro"
    No-shows : "Bro, you scared?"
     
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  13. aikiMac

    aikiMac aikido + boxing = very good Moderator Supporter

    Wow, I'm surprised he's only 160. The way he was blustering, I envisioned a big guy. Anywhoo, I totally want to watch this "fight"! :p:D:p:D

    There's no question in my mind that a trained woman can defend herself. Absolutely yes she can. This guy is going to lose, and I'm going to laugh at him! :p:D:p:D
     
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  14. axelb

    axelb Master of Office Chair Fu

    I hope this goes ahead, and the odds will be in her favour, but there is always the unknown chance in fights.

    Partly I want to see his ego get squished.
    Mostly I like this to be a message, that a trained woman can defend herself without the need for a stupid unusable gadget, but with some persistent effort in the right place..
     
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  15. Anwolf

    Anwolf Valued Member

    To be fair he's not wrong in saying 99% of women will lose to 99% of men. Obviously a trained fighter will beat an untrained fighter 9 times out of 10 though, if they're similar weights.
     
  16. Aegis

    Aegis River Guardian Admin Supporter

    I think he is completely wrong. Otherwise the figure is saying that a woman just below the top 1% in terms of strength and size is physically weaker than a man just above the bottom 1% in terms of strength and size. Clearly men have a natural genetic advantage when it comes to strength, but this claim is nonsense when you actually look at the figures involved.

    Assuming that the two major factors in any given fight are reach and strength, it is probably worth looking at both height and weight distributions for men and women. It would be better to look at an actual measure of strength rather than weight alone, but this is very difficult to find measurements for with "normal" samples. The bottom 1% of men height-wise are around 5'3, whilst the top 1% of women come in at over 5'10. In terms of weight, the bottom 1% of men weigh less than 120lbs, while the heaviest 1% of women come in at over 320lbs, so the 99th percentile woman would have a 200lb weight advantage over the 1st percentile man, which should represent a fairly major advantage in an altercation. Looking at the median weight for younger males of around 180lbs, such a man would be heavier than only around 73% of women - far from the overwhelming dominance that would be required for the 99% type figures to be close to correct. Obviously there's going to be a lot of fat rather than muscle in these upper-end figures, but the point still stands that there is a huge overlap of the height and weight distributions.

    In short, there's absolutely no evidence that 99% of men could beat 99% of women in a fight, and in fact the raw numbers of size and weight would indicate that this is far from true.


    Source: https://www2.census.gov/library/publications/2010/compendia/statab/130ed/tables/11s0205.pdf
     
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  17. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    It comes down to more than just size and weight though, males tend to me more aggressive (higher testosterone levels) have a higher percentage of muscle to fat, denser and lager bone structure are typically more used go taking and giving contact having played more sport in school etc. I agree that the 99% is silly but let's not mask the fact an average female is facing an uphill struggle against the average male
     
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  18. Anwolf

    Anwolf Valued Member

    Even a woman slightly heavier than a man is likely to be weaker.

    Hand-grip strength of young men, women and highly trained female athletes. - PubMed - NCBI

    ^A study showed that 90% of females produced less force than 95% of males. Sure it's not exactly 99% to 99%, and the study was about grip strength, but there is no reason it wouldn't be similar for other tests of strength.

    Anecdotally, I have not met any men who cannot bench at the very least 60-70kg, but most women I know this would be an effort for them to achieve, even for the ones who go to the gym regularly.

    http://www.ehbonline.org/article/S1090-5138(10)00027-9/fulltext

    http://www.anth.ucsb.edu/sites/secu...people/gaulin/Lassek & Gaulin_muscle mass.pdf

    Men have, on average, 60% more lean muscle mass, 90% greater upper body strength, 99.9% of women fall below the mean upper body muscle mass of a man.
     
  19. Nachi

    Nachi Valued Member Supporter

    I originally wanted to write a long posts with a lot of arguments why I think the 99% thing is a nonsense, but in the end, I think I'll just say that I hope the guy gets beaten badly :D And if he shows up, really without a weight advantage and training history, I don't have much doubt that he will.
     
  20. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    In terms of upper body strength, reach and cultural exposure to rough physical contact; yes, the average man has an advantage over the average woman.

    The link between testosterone and aggression is not a linear correlation though. Testosterone can increase chances of submission and generosity, as well as physical aggression. There are a lot of unfounded assumptions about testosterone, such as the assumption that high testosterone levels in prisoners and CEO's means that testosterone leads people to those positions, when it could well be that testosterone is released as a stress hormone. It is also presumed that synthesised hormone analogues' effects will be identical to naturally occurring hormones.

    More recent research suggests that testosterone acts like a "hierarchy enforcer" for pack animals such as ourselves. This means that a low-testosterone person might be more aggressive in the face of a perceived socially dominant aggressor than a high-testosterone person. Let's also not forget that testosterone is the most abundant active hormone in women, as well as men.

    Personally, I don't buy that men are more aggressive than women. I think that men are just more socially conditioned to use violence as a display of that aggression.

    This troll also said that he (an untrained male) would have an 80% chance of beating any professional female fighter, which I think is even more ridiculous than the 99% figure he plucked from his backside.
     

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