malterer/reeders video

Discussion in 'Silat' started by bios69, Jul 4, 2011.

  1. bios69

    bios69 Valued Member

    Hello,
    many of you probably know, or at least heard of, poekoelan tjimande, pionerred from 2 masters in the USA, Willy Wetzel and Master Reeders.
    I know that today are still some school in the USA but I live in Italy and I am very interested in investigating this art.
    I know that John Maltere, a disciple of Willy Wetzel, produced 2 videotapes, 3 hour long each, via the King Dragon enterprises and advertised them many time on Black Belt Magazine, look:
    http://books.google.com/books?id=6t...AEwAg#v=onepage&q=malterer black belt&f=false

    I would please:
    1. does anybody has these 2 tapes? I would like to buy them or a copy.
    2. Does anyone know if Master Redeers poekoelan is in a way on tape? I know that M. Sikes (spelling unsure) was one of his best student.
    3. Any other sources?
    I thank you all for your patience and help.
    Sergio
     
  2. El Medico

    El Medico Valued Member

    Look up MAP member gungfujoe-Erik Harris.Haven't seen him around here for some time but he has a website.You can goooogle him.If you search here and find a post by him his site may be in his signature.

    Tell him I said "hi".
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2011
    gungfujoe likes this.
  3. silatliam

    silatliam Valued Member

    Hi

    We practise Pukulan Cimande here in Ireland. We use to train under William Sanders, before he change direction. At the time he told us the material we were learning, was the material passed down from Willey Wetzel.

    Liam
     
  4. Ular Sawa

    Ular Sawa Valued Member

    There's a forum where the Wetzel guys gather. You might try finding it and checking with them. Try searching Poeklan.net or something.

    I might have these someplace but they were copies on VHS and fifteen years old. I honestly don't know where they are. It's too bad no one is putting this material out anymore.
     
  5. kuntaoer

    kuntaoer Valued Member

    There is very little put out on the reeders system.. I have several acquaintances in the system and the videos are almost nonexistant outside of personal footage.. I ran across the wetzel stuff in an out of the way martial arts shop in Indiana and grabbed 3 of the 4 videos that were available covering the wetzel stuff.. I haven't watched the whole set yet because I am having it converted to dvd format for storage and historical reference
     
  6. bios69

    bios69 Valued Member

    thanks a lot, I will do it.
     
  7. bios69

    bios69 Valued Member

    Hello Master liam,
    thanks for your answer. In fact, at the beginning of the Panther Production series featured by William Senders, he thanks his silat teacher and I remember John Malterer was one of the, together with Victor De Thouars as well as others.
    What do you mean saying that M. Sanders changed direction?
    I allways had the impression that his style is very mixed: serak, poekoelan and other style he learrned in his trip in Indonesia.
    My greetings.
     
  8. bios69

    bios69 Valued Member

    Hello Master Liam,
    thanks for your answer. In fact, at the beginning of the Panther Production series featured by William Senders, he thanks his silat teacher and I remember John Malterer was one of the, together with Victor De Thouars as well as others.
    What do you mean saying that M. Sanders changed direction?
    I allways had the impression that his style is very mixed: serak, poekoelan and other style he learrned in his trip in Indonesia.
    My greetings.
     
  9. bios69

    bios69 Valued Member

    Hello Master Liam,
    thanks for your answer. In fact, at the beginning of the Panther Production series featured by William Senders, he thanks his silat teacher and I remember John Malterer was one of the, together with Victor De Thouars as well as others.
    What do you mean saying that M. Sanders changed direction?
    I allways had the impression that his style is very mixed: serak, poekoelan and other style he learrned in his trip in Indonesia.
    My greetings.
     
  10. bios69

    bios69 Valued Member

    Could you please tell me what kind of video did you grabbed in Indiana?
    Were them the Maltere series?
    Where is M. Maltere now?
    Could you give a look to the videos (if you find them) and refer? If you could convert them , it would be great.
    It's very difficoult material to find.
    I read on some forum that there is a theory about the pukulan (dutch used to call poekoelan) styles, it was explained that exists a theory that these styles are more aggresive the the general silat style. One guy that actually study Pukulan from a dutch based school http://www.pukulan-pakflohr.com/home_it.aspx) explained this theory telling that these pukulan styles do not have parries, and are very much for attaking the incoming limbs.
    It seems that they are the dutch expression of silat, more direct and less mysystic.
    Now, before everybody tells me that all the martial arts are good, that all the silat are conceived for attaking and that all the silat are as good as the pratictioner, I would like to point that I have the impression that this Wetzel poekoelan, being a pukulan style is , in a general way, more attaking oriented that general other silat style.
    In the Martial Arts Enciclopedia by Chris Crudelli is dedicated a short paragrapf about Reeders kuntao (Royal Kuntao) (I know it's the other branch, but it's still poekoelan tjimande) where is explained that is an aggressive sytem with a lot of blows launched in a continuum flow, thus confirming the mentioned theory.
    I do not know if this is a beliveable theory, maybe you have different thoughts.
    Cheers,
    Sergio
     
  11. bios69

    bios69 Valued Member

    I found that community, thanks Ular Sawa.
    But none seems to have the material I am looking for, there are beautiful photos and a nice forum.
    Please tell me something yhe vhs tapes. If they are the W. Sanders silat series, I allready have it.
    If it's the 2 tapes advertised in BB during the 70/s and 80's I ask you to finfd the in your most secret places. Maybe they are in an old box or near the stuff you owned when you were a boy...i don't know, but, find them.
    I trust your patience a lot.
    Sergio
     
  12. bios69

    bios69 Valued Member

    I found that community, thanks Ular Sawa.
    But none seems to have the material I am looking for, there are beautiful photos and a nice forum.
    Please tell me something yhe vhs tapes. If they are the W. Sanders silat series, I allready have it.
    If it's the 2 tapes advertised in BB during the 70/s and 80's I ask you to find the in your most secret places. Maybe they are in an old box or near the stuff you owned when you were a boy...i don't know, but, find them.
    I trust your patience a lot.
    Sergio
     
  13. bios69

    bios69 Valued Member

    I found that community, thanks Ular Sawa.
    But none seems to have the material I am looking for, there are beautiful photos and a nice forum.
    Please tell me something yhe vhs tapes. If they are the W. Sanders silat series, I allready have it.
    If it's the 2 tapes advertised in BB during the 70/s and 80's I ask you to find them in your most secret places. Maybe they are in an old box or near the stuff you owned when you were a boy...i don't know, but, find them.
    I trust your patience a lot.
    Sergio
     
  14. bios69

    bios69 Valued Member

    sorry for the double answer, it's not my fault.
     
  15. bios69

    bios69 Valued Member

    Hello, I founf the guy and by the logo I recognised his wessite, very beautiful.
    It's from the Reeders lineage, I had previously lokked to see if they were selling videos but unfortunetly the did not write anything there.
    Maybe the could sell somethin privately. I will ask.
    Thanks for your help and direct anwer.
     
  16. bustr

    bustr New Member

    Any progress on finding them?
     
  17. gungfujoe

    gungfujoe Please, call me Erik. :)

    I haven't logged in here in years, but did tonight after I stumbled across something on that mentioned me in reference to an old MAP thread. Since someone bumped this thread up just a few months ago, I'll share my two cents.

    As others have said, there isn't a lot out there publicly about Willem Reeders/Liu Seong's family of arts, but there's a lot more than there used to be, thanks to a few individuals from one branch of the art. Chris Derbaum has been publicizing himself quite heavily, with seminars around the US and elsewhere in the world, and quite a few videos of his classes and seminars (on both YouTube and Facebook). Chris' training is based on Bob Servidio's branch of the system. Reeders taught all of his students a bit differently, even those who were learning the same art together, so while there's a very clear "family resemblance," you'll see significant differences in the ways people move based on which of Reeders' original students their training traces back to, so seeing his YouTube videos will give you a limited idea of how others in the system move. Bob Servidio's students look different from Ed Sealy's students, who look different from Art Sikes' students, who look different from Jerry Bradigan's students, and so forth. Let me be clear that I'm NOT disparaging any of them, only noting that each is tailored to how Reeders taught one of his students in particular.

    My teacher, Joe Salomone, was one of Art Sikes' students, and in the late 1990s, he put out a series of three VHS tapes (and a book) on the art. He doesn't make any effort to publicize or sell them, but I converted them to DVD quite a number of years ago, and occasionally burn copies to sell on his behalf.

    Reggie McKissick is another of Art Sikes' students, and he released a "Leopard System" DVD awhile ago. I purchased it, but I'm embarrassed to say that I still haven't watched it! I've met some of his students, and some of his "grand-students," though, and based on their representation, I have utmost respect for Master McKissick. Since JAMA shut down years ago, I'm not quite sure where you can buy the DVD (the link above is to an archived store page with no apparent way to purchase). Master McKissick also has a few YouTube videos, but the appear to be very limited in their content.

    I know GM Sikes trained with Willy Wetzel, too, but my understanding of the history of the art I learned flows primarily back to Reeders, so I'm afraid I've got nothing substantive to offer in terms of Wetzel-based videos.
     
  18. taoizt

    taoizt Valued Member

    It's quite common to see different expressions and understandings of the same system. Some people focus on speed, others on hard contact, others on smart footwork. It also depends on the one who is the main teacher of the branch; what is his personal preference, his understanding, his physical abilities. Same goes for terms like 'poekoelan' that by some is mentioned as a particular system, whilst for me it's more a range of systems that fit in that category. If i see 'poekoelan' from for instance the branch of Barbara Niggel, i would say, with all respect, "hell no that's no poekoelan, with all the flying kicks etc.". But i guess it all depends on what your frame of reference is.

    If you look at the Willy Wetzel branch in the past you could find people calling it Karate, Kungfu or whatever what's appropriate. I guess it depends on what sells best in the end.
     
  19. gungfujoe

    gungfujoe Please, call me Erik. :)

    Taoizt,

    Absolutely, I agree that happens in every system, but I haven't seen others where it happens to quite the same degree as Reeders' arts. Different branches of the art have different drills, different forms, and even different base stances, for example. It's not just a matter of the preferences of Reeders' students in what they passed down, but significant differences in what Reeders chose to teach each of his students, presumably because of what he felt suited each of them. I've seen enough variations with undoubtedly-legitimate lineages (i.e. I've met a handful of Reeders' original students that are recognized and respected as such by each other) that I have little doubt that these actually represent differences in what each of them was taught.

    I've heard a few different systems called "broken mirror" systems, but for ours, it truly seems to apply (and to be clear, I don't consider this a "better" or "worse" attribute). Each branch of the system has a differently-shaped piece, but each reflects a complete image on its own. :)
     

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