Defending against multiple attackers

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by tooksomechin_na, Sep 2, 2017.

  1. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Fine thanks.

    Nope, just randomers I've sparred with over the years. Whenever I meet someone who does MA, I always ask them if they want to spar sometime. It's surprising how many don't!
     
  2. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    So your saying fighting 1 VS 2 isn't much harder then 1 VS 1 if you know marbo?
     
  3. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    So what rulesets did you use, how did you do, did you lose any bouts, did you win any bouts?
    How did you lose, did you training change to improve after your loss?
     
  4. Rataca100

    Rataca100 Banned Banned

    Dont bother with acronyms for all purposes they can mean anything and its easier to just ask the person who uses it. And then if i cant find it, im at stage one.
     
  5. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    I'm no authority for sure, but I will discuss my experiences with others, and I know enough to know what's realistic.

    And from everything I've seen, and trained, I know fighting multiples is very very hard and should be avoided at all costs.
     
  6. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    You really should try to check first, it' may be easier for you, but it puts upon others.
     
  7. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    If they're not coordinated as a team, then 2 vs 1 is not twice as hard as 1 vs 1, and 4 vs 1 is easier than 2 vs 1.
     
  8. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Just general anything goes in a gentlemanly manner. I've sparred a number of full contact sport guys, but I can honestly say that there was never talk of winning or losing. I've only had a couple of guys end up trying to damage me (through frustration of not landing anything), to which I stayed light and polite, and I've been taken down but not submitted, so I honestly don't know how you would asses a "win" or "lose" without someone at the sidelines keeping a tally of points (and that's never happened).
     
  9. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Have you ever fought 4 vs 1 in real life?
     
  10. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Fighting anyone should be avoided at all costs.

    I'm not saying it's easy, or it's something to be entered into lightly. Just like knife defences, it's for improving your odds of surviving inescapable situations. Given the chance, it's always better to avoid or escape.
     
  11. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    So you've sparred boxers and Mt boxers who couldn't land strikes on you, and BJJ ers who couldn't sub you, and wrestlers who did take you down?

    Either your selection process weeded anyone good out, or your lying.

     
  12. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Nearly, once, but they ran away!

    I've not been in a hyper-violent situation against 4 people, but I have been in physical altercations in crowds where my training has come in very handy. As well as having training partners who use these skills a lot more due to their professions.
     
  13. Xue Sheng

    Xue Sheng All weight is underside

    I agree, I don't care where you train or what you train, nothing prepares you for real confrontations. I had a job in security in a hospital that had a mental health and detox unit and I was in 60 fights in 3 months and although my background Martial arts training helped it was not the same. I was even at one point in a multiple stye sparing group in the early 1990s and that to helped, but it is not the same as dealing with a person who is drunk or mentally unstable who really wants to hurt you. It is uncontrolled and sometimes unexpected.

    As to the Jujitsu class from 40 years ago, it was not exactly experimentation, it ws part of the class and training that my Sensei put us through
     
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  14. Xue Sheng

    Xue Sheng All weight is underside

    Technically doing it anywhere outside of a real fight is theory, buy the definition of theory
     
  15. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Hey man, I've already had dinner tonight, I don't need you putting words in my mouth! ;)

    It was actually a full-contact Karate guy and some kind of kick boxer (no idea of the style) who got miffed at not landing any strikes (both did have impressive-sounding competitive titles, like one national and one regional, but with the number of organisations giving out titles in that kind kind of stuff I presume it doesn't mean much). I have no idea if I've ever sparred a wrestler, I'm not sure where you got that from. I don't think any of the boxers or MT guys I've sparred have any kind of notable, or any at all, competition record (beyond the fights everyone does when they go to Thailand and inter club stuff). Pretty sure the 2 or 3 people I've sparred who claimed some BJJ must have merely dabbled, because I was expecting that to work better.

    Not sure what you mean by "selection process"? If I get talking to someone who trains MA, I invite them to spar some time.
     
  16. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    The Selection process would be those who you talk to who agree to spar you.

    So we have a Mt guy who fought in Thailand and a kyokusin guy who held titles? Who couldn't touch you?

    So was it the bjj guy who took you down but couldn't sub you?
     
  17. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    I don't get to select that. It's just whoever I happen to meet.

    I don't think the kick boxer in question was MT, some kind of freestyle kung fu based stuff? I don't know. To be honest, the Karate guy probably could have got me with some head kicks, because he was really good at high roundhouses, super strong too, but he always pulled them, which makes it very hard to know if they would have got through because the telegraphing is different.

    Yeah, a couple of people who've done some kind of MMA training. Nowhere near competitive level though.

    I would never claim to be a great fighter, but I am confident in my defensive game. It wouldn't work well for competition, but I train to increase my chances of survival, not for some ego game of winning and losing.
     
  18. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    So when you said boxers and guys who've fought Mt in Thailand, you didn't mean boxers and guys who've fought Mt in Thailand?
     
  19. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Honestly yeah...it's all theory really. All training does is up the odds in your favour. It can help. Different sorts of training can help more than others.
    But still...at the end of the day there will be a moment when the brown stuff hits the aircon and only then will you know if your training has helped.
    There are plenty of cases of people training that then don't perform come game/fight time. Or at least they don't perform at their full potential.
    As I said...training is an approximation. Skirting around the territory while never getting into the territory.

    With that said...I'm not then saying that full contact competition won't help you face a real situation. It'll help. Maybe. :)

    The best results are gained, I think, through someone training robustly (heavy contact from time to time, less limited sparring and scenarios, role playing, contextual training, pressure testing, etc), training to have versatile skills (stand up, clinch, ground) and facing adversity in training (like a sport martial art with heavy contact and/or full resistance) AND gaining real life experience putting what they learn into practice. Many people do the first two things but virtually no one outside of being a LEO, bouncer, prison officer, debt collector, street fighting idiot does the latter.
     
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  20. Dunc

    Dunc Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    The traditional Japanese arts teach a few different strategies for multiple attackers. Probably 90% of it is weapons based - I suspect this is because without weapons your options/chances are much more limited

    They all involve the following:
    1. DON'T run away unless you have a long, clear stretch of space to sprint into and are confident that you'll reach safety before your assailants catch up with you. They will chase after you and as soon as you hit an obstacle they will reach you with your back turned - I appreciate that this is contrary to the advice many martial artists will give
    2. Keep mobile and never let anyone get close or to your sides/back
    3. Try to position yourself to engage / find a weapon of some sort. Traditionally this means creating sufficient space to allow you to draw your weapon
    4. If engaged try to make the assailant move or fall between you and their associates
    5. You only(?!) have to make it difficult for your assailants to carry on or chase after you. So your objective is to damage their extremities (feet/legs or hands/wrists), diaphragm or eyesight or cause unconsciousness etc from a strike
    As others have said there are limitations in the way that these methods are trained in TJMA. However, I do think studying the strategy/principles is helpful whatever style you do

    Perhaps there are safe ways to train these under pressure, but as others have said if the skill gap is anywhere near close then the chances of you surviving long are very low

    Having said that there is a big difference between dealing with skilled assailants and other people. I’ve only had direct experience of one, fairly straightforward, multiple situation and I was very surprised at how easy it was to unbalance people into each other
     
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