it would appear i am not being able to convey that i am not saying what you claim i'm saying. let us leave it at that as i have no wish to debate the issue further, as it appears you are also ignoring parts of my posts.
I'm pretty sure you can gain muscle mass without weights but won't get as good results I assume. I do lift weights and I believe that if you control yourself correctly, you can avoid overbulking yourself. If i'm not mistaken, diet also plays a part in this.
Aki, would you care to explain what exercises cause bulk and which don't? because if you know something the rest of the world doesn’t then I’d like to know too. P.S.If you say push ups I will scream.
What even is it? Overbulking is a pretty innocuous term IMO. Unless your confined to a weight class then extra bodyweight is rarely going to be a bad thing.
There are other great threads about this. Generally, in my opinion, the best way is to go with both, leaning towards heavy body weight work for the upper body and weights for the lower body. You'd be hardpressed to find people stronger in the upper body than gymnasts, but if you're not strictly a gymnast, hit those deadlifts, squats, and weighted lower body lifts!
There's different types of strength, so while a gymnast may be strong in some areas he may not be the strongest in others. Hossein Rezazadeh may not be able to do an Iron Cross, but his clean and jerk of 579.7lbs/263.5kg isn't going to be mimicked by any gymnast any time soon.
I agree, Kuma, which is why I consider the Olympic lifts and lower body lifts to be extremely important for well-rounded athletes and non-gymnasts.
Thought I'd throw my 2 cents worth of research in the ring, might not sure exactly how much bearing it has though Firstly, I would suggest that the modern idea of weight lifting comes to us from the Victorian/Edwardian practices of "wellness" which included the creation of centres who's activities including the use of weights. Followed of course by the evolution of the strongman and a steadily more refined use of weights and weight lifting in exercise regimes as people began to better understand the workings of muscles. However, that being said, there is evidence that weights were used by the ancient Greeks to deliberately sculpt their body shape. Considering they did all their wrestling etc naked that makes sense I guess. So weight lifting has a long history indeed. Having said that, it would seem that in most ages, people became "Fit for purpose" (a slogan the Edwardians would later popularise). This is to say that we became strong by doing. Until fairly recently life was a mostly manual affair, and simply by living you became strong (OK this might not apply to upper classes). I'll furnish a few examples: 1) Of course our ancient history is full of examples of tribal cultures who's warriors were strong because their cultures made them so. A good example would be the vikings, evidence suggests they were good at fighting because they were extremely well trained. They became good by being "fit for purpose" 2) Maybe a better example is that of the anglo-saxon citizen soldier. A man was required to be prepared for war whenever he was called. The Anglo-Saxons were strong not because they trained for war (indeed the entire system was deeply inefficient but that's another story). Their lives working the fields and working hard made them strong. 3) For a time in medieval England it was required that each man give 4 hours on a Saturday(or maybe Sunday, I forget) to Longbow practice. I don't know about you but I can't draw a bow for 4 hours. Some of the bows found on the wreck of the Mary Rose are reputed to have a draw weight of 180lbs+ Anyway, allow these three examples to serve for the moment so I can conclude the point I was trying to reach lol. In short, the idea of going to the gym and lifting weights simply for the purpose of building muscle is, historically at least, a little crazy. Strength arose not from the simple building of muscle but from training to fulfil a purpose. Indeed most "training" while it may have involved something outside of the body (bows, swords, armour etc) the end goal was not so much on of strength as one of skill. Musculature was, by in large, the side effect. So I think that if you train hard at your choose skill (in this case martial arts) then the strength requirement will flow naturally from that. I hope this makes some form of sense, but I'm very tired so I apologise if it doesn't
Estrix, good post. I like your approach. However, a gym is just a location where there are training instructors and equipment. It could just as easily be your backyard. Don't you think that the vikings had training camps/bases where they had targets and drill instructors? That's been going on forever.
Glad you liked the approach, I was a little worried it hadn't come out quite like I wanted it to lol. I do agree that the Vikings probably had training camps, indeed there is evidence that they were so highly trained that this is almost certainly the case. I'd also agree that a gym could just be your backyard. However what I am really arguing against is the modern habit of simply going to the gym and lifting weights simply to sculpt the body. I am suggesting that it is the idea of "fitness for purpose" that should be foremost in our minds. It is against the modern "gym bunny" culture that I'm really arguing. This seeming obsession with endlessly lifting weights which achieve (in my opinion) little or nothing beyond the cosmetic. Even though the Greeks used weights to sculpt the body, it was still in addition to for example, their wrestling training. But to return more fully to the point of the topic I would say that for most of human history, any weight training came not directly through simply lifting a weight over and over, but through the use of skill, either through the plough or the smiths hammer or the endurance of the hunter; or the weights were the sword and the shield and the armour. The strength of the man arose through his skills. So I would say that if I want to become good at my kung fu I train harder and longer, and the strength will flow as a side effect from practising that skill. It is that link between strength (and indeed health) arising through the continual hard training of skills that gives rise to fitness for purpose.
I see what you're saying, but athletes, and I mean REAL athletes, train only for athletic excellence (be it combat-based, football, etc.). They don't just train to sculpt their bodies and look good in a bikini (gosh, I hate those people). When someone goes to the gym (or his back yard) to focus on strength development to supplement his combat skills, surely it is just as legitimate and warrior-worthy as simply practicing the kung fu technicals. Skill work is undoubtedly the most important part of any athletic-like behavior, be it real combat or a regular ol' sport. However, strength, flexibility, speed, and rehab+prehab are all vital to perform the technical skill at the highest level. Training to the gym is ONLY to enhance technical skill, but it is essential nevertheless.
I would say that if I wanted to be strong then picking up heavy stuff (including myself) is surely the best way to go about it? When I'm pulling a Deadlifts with callouses full of chalk and bleeding or squatting in a rack with a big ol weight on my back I can assure you that it is not aesthetics on my mind. There is a difference between bodybuilding and athletic development, and while being 'fit for purpose' is great and all lifting weights is just another tool to achieve that.
You can build muscle with bodyweight alone. To make serious gains, the key to this is making your own bodyweight feel like it's way more than it is. For example; A pushup? Easy. A one armed pushup? You might think twice about it! So basically, you can make your own weight seem ridiculously heavier than it is by reducing contact points as one way. Fighting gravity is also a great way, which is your rope climb and pullups, and anything else going up. Another way is to put yourself into positions where your body is naturally weak. It's an extreme example and a bad one to use, but look at people who can do the "human flag". There is no way their body was strong in that position naturally, they had to work their weaker muscles to do that. I have no idea how to train for an exercise like that! Train Harder!
There are a lot of different factors involved in building muscle but one of the main ones has to be a proper diet full of what your body needs to keep up with the demand you will be putting on it. Protein Bars and Shakes are for convienance when your on the go. A diet that contains the proper nutrients you need while working towards your Muscle Building Goals will go the distance, if your ready to work! You can forego that consumption if you really take hold of what your consuming and are getting the proper substitutes, with the right nutrition! There are always different ways to improve and increase gains with and without the status quo but persistence and determination are among the best out there. Keep striving for more! Check out this website it really helped me out getting started: removed “Everybody pities the weak: Jealousy you have to earn.” - Arnold Schwarzenegger
If you train in a traditional system consistently by attending classes and train yourself at home your muscles will eventually grow in size or become refined. Larger muscles doesn't nessesrily make someone a better martial artist. The hard style aspects of the martial art I train has a strong emphasis on push ups and similar. The guys who have trained there for years are clear to me that they're strong , perhaps not visually though
