Best MA for self defence

Discussion in 'Self Defence' started by Jab Cross Hook, Sep 12, 2017.

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  1. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    They are training days with the very best of instruction, top notch protective equipment, simulated scenarios including multiple attackers.

    John Titchen now also covers child abductions in his scenarios.

    The day is filmed and at the end of the session time is set aside for video review.

    It's really interesting discussing why attendees chose the course of action they did. Some chose to fight when it really isn't necessary, others wait too long and others fail to justify their actions.

    I have found it's what I take away from the sessions more what I do on the actual day.

    They make you question yourself, your approach to your training and certainly your thoughts and understanding on self defence.

    John is always updating his videos, but this goes some way to answering your question.

     
  2. Rataca100

    Rataca100 Banned Banned

    Looks intresting. Is it a generic term or is it only a specfic group of people doing it?
     
  3. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    SIM is for "simulation" and although many claim to do it few do it properly - John's days are world class and I brought him to Canada to pass his knowledge on to my Pack

    When you consider the only people I have flown in have been Masters and Grandmasters in their style that should give you some idea of how highly i rate John.

    Simon is my UK Director for HAVOC, and he continues the training relationship between the two organisations. Many claim to teach and practice Self Defense - John delivers

    Anyone who has the opportunity to train with him yet neglects to do so simply is not serious about their self-defense training or development
     
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  4. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    SIM stands for simulation.

    For example a simulation could be one person standing at an ATM drawing out money.

    An aggressor approaches and demands money. What do you do?

    The aggressor will be given a scenario, i.e. the person at the ATM hands over the money and the aggressor takes it and leaves, or maybe the aggressor escalates and becomes violent, what do you do?

    It could be a parent and a child and the child is the target. What do you do and why?

    Again the aggressor may be acting in conjunction with another. It is often the case that the aggressor and his/her accomplice are given differing directions, so one is prone to violence if given the wrong answers from the defender, while the other is more likely to be non violent.

    It isn't the same people doing it all the time.

    Edit. Hannibal beat me to it.
     
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  5. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    NINJERED BULLDOG!!!!!!! BOW TO THE HOUND!!!
     
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  6. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    It's great to see many MAPpers, friends, and some of my students on that video. I think it gives a real flavour of Sim Days, why they are worthwhile, and how they differ from normal sparring.

    That big dude laying down righteous knees at 2.55 to 3.00 looks a bit tasty too. :D

    Mitch
     
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  7. John Titchen

    John Titchen Still Learning Supporter

    Thanks to those who've mentioned the experience and insight they've gained from my Sim Days. The physical element of the day is the tip of the iceberg - it's what people can take away from analysing each little event afterwards that is important.

    I would agree with Hannibal that while Karate clubs that do unscripted training with elements of pressure are still not the norm, they are more common than HEMA groups and the number is continuously growing. There will always be a place for non contact child orientated clubs, and they serve a good purpose for a lot of their students, and there will also always be a place for those that want to high skill level WKF kumite type of Karate too, but the number of clubs in the UK offering a broader syllabus with greater aliveness in the training is continuously growing. When I wrote my Pinan Flow System series my aim was to provide instructors with a safe pathway to incorporate that sort of training into their syllabi from a static base skill development foundation all the way up through dynamic to alive training. Obviously any individual can pick up applications from any instructor or develop them themselves, but my core aim was to give them a template training methodology foundation that gave the benefits of competitive sparring while staying closer to a violent confrontation dynamic.

    Bristol was mentioned in the thread and in fact Bristol is home to an excellent Karate Dojo that understands the commonality of karate with other arts (as a striking and grappling art) and hosts complementary classes in multiple arts - providing a great training base for people interested in physical fitness, core combative skills or combat sports.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFvaUZpmhD0

    Returning to Sim Days - there are a few Mappers giving their perspectives on the training method in this video (and more in the footage).



    Every event is different and tailored to the participants. I'm always looking at ways to ensure that people get more out of the days despite the necessary compromises made for safety. It's not simulated pressure - it's pressure. There are a number attendees posting here who are very experienced in having to deal with real danger and real violence and while they would admit that this is different, the consequences of failure different, the decision making pressures are what are being trained and these can be very real and very sobering for a lot of participants. As Smurf says - it's a wake up call. Watching how you physically respond (and taking that away to improve your training) is a wake up call. Analysing your tactical responses and their ethical and legal implications had the event been real is a wake up call.
     
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  8. Alansmurf

    Alansmurf Aspire to Inspire before you Expire Supporter

    Like they all said ...

    SIM days are an excellent way to check your training and skills in a safe enviroment...as long as you dont shake hands with me !!!
     
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  9. Matt F

    Matt F Valued Member




    What!
    Are you kidding.
    Too far guys surely.

    It's all right for adults to buy into this fantasy violent reenactment stuff but too far with children
     
  10. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    Matt F, why don't you ask some questions rather than making foolish assumptions?

    First and foremost John Titchen is a world renowned martial artist and expert in self defence.

    Do some research and check out who in the martial arts community recommends John as the go to guy in the UK.

    Secondly what makes you think abductions are fantasy re-enactments?

    Questions to be asked are, does the child make the correct decisions, does the parent, what about the bystanders and so on.

    Not every self defence scenario goes physical and that is an important point to note.

    I have so many people ask me about SD or what I would do in a SD scenario and so many are disappointed when I mention all of the steps before en encounter goes physical.

    So ask questions, don't make assumptions and maybe learn along the way.

    It's what MAP is all about after all.
     
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  11. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Some back-of-the-napkin calculations based on stats from the BBC from around 5 years ago:

    Chances of under 16 year old being abducted: 1 in 230,000 (0.0004%)

    Chances of under 16 year old being intended victim of failed abduction: between 1 in 23,000 (0.004%) and 1 in 100 (1%) - so obviously those stats are not conclusive in any way, and account for non-reporting of abduction attempts.

    Half of successful abductions are by a parent and over two thirds involve the abductor being in a vehicle. I'm wondering how these are simulated?

    Children are at far more risk from their peers, both in real life and on the internet. Abduction seems like a strange scenario to focus on for child safety.
     
  12. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    It's about decision making.

    As has been said by those that have attended these events, "it's about what you take away from the day."
     
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  13. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

  14. John Titchen

    John Titchen Still Learning Supporter

    I don't wish to derail this thread.

    In the case f the child abductions, I've written about the training here
    The sobering reality of a fake abduction
    and a short video can be seen here



    We were all well aware of the safety compromises we were making in addition to the built in falsehoods (they didn't know how or who and had not witnessed prior attempts, but they did know we were going to attempt it). We did however learn a great deal from the training (a number of commonly cited tactics were quickly shown to be useless) and the speed and ease of the event made an impression on all concerned.

    In a strange quirk of timing the following week a safeguarding message went out to all the local schools as a white van had been cruising junior schools in the region attempting to entice children to get in.

    I try to include juniors on all my Sim Days where possible because their presence takes adults into a different mental zone and allows for a far greater range of scenarios. They are also invaluable for the juniors in highlighting the importance of all the non physical elements of self defence as well as the difference that size and strength can make.
     
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  15. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Too late for that :)

    Which commonly cited tactics were quickly shown to be useless?

    Is there any age limit for children being in your Sim Days?

    What do the kids get out of it?
     
  16. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    I am going to have to respectfully disagree with parts of this post. Matt F is expressing his opinion and that is what MAP is all about. And Matt is hardly the only one to express himself with a strong opinion before asking questions. Yes, it would be better to not be so sarcastic, but to single him out for a common attitude/ expression on MAP expressed by many?

    I have the utmost of respect for John, but that doesn't mean he can't be questioned. Honestly, that gets used a little too much on here sometimes. Like us regular folk can't question the instructors on here ever about anything. There is a line. I mean, questioning an expert without experience yourself is ignorant and dumb. But on the other hand, you don't need to be an instructor to have an opinion on some things - like whether you believe in a type of class or not. He isn't being questioned on the fine points of karate moves.

    Just because John is a "who's who in the UK MA community" doesn't mean he is the only one who gets to have an opinion. Questioning whether teaching child abduction scenario's is perfectly legitimate. I agree questions above assumptions about the training would have been better and more productive. But I too raised an eyebrow over that. I appreciate John's response, which I still need to fully read once I wake up more. That is the sort of discusssion MAP is about.

    Questioning or making assumptions about the details of Karate details, without practicing the art yourself, and then questioning John- that would be ridiculous. Saying one can't question John at all about anything, No- I can't agree. And John is just the example here.

    Another example: Long ago on here, I expressed disagreement with wanting one's daughter to quit competing because of fear of one loss. I thought it was a poor attitude. I was called out because the person posting about that is a respected coach. I wasn't questioning the details of the art, but overdoing a competitive attitude. the daughter was not a professional like the dad. I was told I wasn't even allowed to question it, due to the dad's expertise in coaching.

    Another example: we question LEO's use of force on here from time to time. The LEO's here certainly have a perspective that is expert and welcome. But regular citizens DO get to have an opinion about if an LEO overstepped boundaries of their job. The LEO isn't the only opinion allowed, even if it is an expert opinion.
     
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  17. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    Nothing wrong with being questioned, but look at the difference between how David asked and Matt's response.
     
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  18. John Titchen

    John Titchen Still Learning Supporter

    Every bear hug drill I've ever seen demonstrated in any style. The idea of bracing against the vehicle - (it can work, but if you've got a receiver in the vehicle it's not going to happen). We will be doing more trials with (mainly) adults and scrap-able and breakable vehicles next year to play with more variables.

    The youngest I'd take is 12. I don't allow children to participate blind - all those so far have been my own students or the students of instructors whose judgement I trust such as Mitch. I think the youngest we've had is 13. More often the juniors are mid to late teens (15-17), but as Sim Days are a grade requirement with me for 3Kyu through to 1Dan these juniors were offered places and both the participants and the parents were keen.

    Fun (there is a rollercoaster element to the training - anticipation - then argghhhhh! - then smiles/laughter/handshakes), physical skill development, decision making experience, a reality check with regard to the advantages of adults over children (quite important for some cocky youngsters), and like the adults a significant insight into their current mental and physical responses to stimuli and a detailed seminar on the legality and ethics of using violence. Of the six hour day about one hour is spent on acclimatisation and safety briefings, probably about twenty minutes on scenarios, about an hour briefing the scenarios and about three hours forty on footage analysis and discussion. It's amazing how the time flies by.
     
  19. John Titchen

    John Titchen Still Learning Supporter

    This was one element of many during the day (which included things like peer violence, theft from a person, and child presence in adult directed violence in public places). It was included as we were doing road rage incidents as an element of the day (all the adults were returnees so we were covering some scenarios/dynamics that they had not worked on before). It was not the focus of the day, rather an option provided that all were interested in.
     
  20. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Thanks for the detailed answers, John. :)
     
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